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Author: snailracer [ Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: The Human League

The thread to post the finalised rules, match reports and team sheets in


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Human Pro-League Offcial Rules

1. The league participants shall be Peter Spence, Richard Jackson, Luke Johnson and Matthew Lambert.

2. Each coach will be given 1,100,000 GP to start a rookie Human team for entry into a separate league from the LBBL.

3. The rookie team will be made up from the following roster:
0-16 Human Linemen
0-4 Human Blitzers
0-4 Human Catchers/Halflings
0-2 Human Throwers
0-1 Ogre

4. Once the league has begun, a coach may only buy additional players in the following ways;

A/ Rookie Linemen or Halflings at normal value
B/ Players through the transfer window

5. The league season will consist of 6 games, two games being played against each opponent in the league (home and away). Each coach will gain 3 points for winning a game and 1 point for drawing a game. At the end of the season the coach with the most points is the winner of the league. After 6 games, the league points will reset but the teams will continue for a further 6 games to represent seasons.

6. When the gate is rolled before each game, multiply the figure by 10 to get the ticket sales in GP. The ticket sales are divided equally between the two teams, the money being place in their treasury before kick-off. This does not affect the winnings roll made at the end of the game.

7. Playing at home carries certain advantages as follows;

A/ The home team gains one bribe for free
B/ The home team coach may re-roll his rolls on the kick-off table. He must accept the second result.
C/ The Home team always gains the FAME unless the away team has double the number of fans.
D/ Home field advantage gives the home team a winnings re-roll even if they lose.

8. At the end of the game the coach must pay his players for their services. Each player needs to be paid 10% of their value. If the coach hasn’t got enough money in the treasury to pay the whole team he must decide which players to pay. Mark on the roster which players have been paid. If a player was not paid for a previous game, the coach may chose to pay that player’s wages after subsequent games, in order that the player is paid the correct amount.

9. For each game, two MVPs will be awarded. One will be the coach’s choice and the other will be a random selection inclusive of the whole squad. After each game, the player on each team with the most SPPs gains the skill Fan Favourite for the next game.

10. After every 3 games there will be a transfer window. Roll a dice for each player that has not been paid at least once since the start of the league. On the roll of a 1, that player hands in a transfer request. For each game that the player has not been paid since the start of the league, subtract 1 from the dice roll.

11. When a player hands in a transfer request he is put up for sale. Any other coach in the league may offer an amount of money from their treasury to secure that player’s services for their own team. The amount offered must be at least equal to the value of the player. A coach can only bid on players who are up for sale.

12. No coach may bid on a player that would exceed the limits of the roster, e.g. a fifth catcher. Any coach may offer players on their team in exchange or as part of a bid – this is up to the coach’s discretion and does not need to necessarily reflect the value of the player being bid on or offered in exchange e.g. a coach could offer a 90K blitzer in exchange for a 70K catcher.

13. The coach whose player is being bid on during the transfer window must decide which of the bids to accept. If there are no bids, or if none of the bids is acceptable, the coach must sell the player to the International leagues for that player’s rookie value, e.g. a thrower would be worth 70K even if they had several skills.

14. In each transfer window there is the possibility of players becoming available to buy on the international market. To see how many players are available, roll a dice. After 3 games have been played, roll a D3 and add 1 to see how many players become available. After 6 games have been played, roll a D6 and add 2. Then for each player roll a D3 to see what type of player they are;
1: Halfling/Lineman (Roll a further D6, on a 3 or more it’s a lineman)
2: Catcher/Thrower (Roll a further D6, on a 3 or more it’s a catcher)
3: Blitzer/Ogre (Roll a further D6, on a 3 or more it’s a Blitzer)
Then for each player roll a D3 to see how many skills they start with. The player is awarded the exact amount of SPPs needed to have gained that number of skills. Each skill is rolled for as normal, with all coaches deciding what to give the player by a silent vote consensus. The value of the player is then set as per the cost on the roster and the cost of the upgrades and each player may make bids to gain the player’s services. The highest bidder, at least equal to the value of the player, may add the player to their roster.


Author: BrizzleRob [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:25 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Looks interesting. I’ll be particularly interested to see how the transfer rules work.


Author: snailracer [ Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:21 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The first week of the first season of the LBBL human league started with an exciting double header.

The coaches had a four way coin toss to determine who would start at home and who would be on the road. Pete and Luke were the travelling teams but would get the benefits of a home fixture next week.

Rich lined up against luke, and matt lined up against pete. Both home teams won the toss and decided to kick. Both rich and luke had gone with an ogre from the start, whereas Matt and pete were relying on man power alone.

Matt rolled a blitz immediately and a blitzer took a free hit at a catcher, only to do no damage at all. Pete recieved comfortably and started to move the ball. Both rookie teams traded blows but no serious damage was done. Pete moved the ball towards the scrimmage as the defence held. A gap opened up on the left side of the pitch so pete moved the ball into it. Some decent scramble defence saw both defender and ball carrier down and the ball bouncing into touch. Unfortunately for the defenders it went straight into a group of away fans who threw it half way to the endzone. Pete wasted no time in picking up and heading to the endzone, stopping just short. A blitzer dodged out to throw a block on the catcher and ran straight into his elbow (failed dodge followed by double skulls). A blitzer moved up to support the catcher but matts blitzer managed to get up, dodge out and hit the catcher, but only succeeded in pushing him into the endzone. 1-0 pete.

Matt had a quarter of the half to equalise but couldn’t pull off a last minute pass and the half ended 1-0.
Recieving in the second half saw Matt control the ball deep and wait for a gap to appear. It soon did as a blitzer had a mini rampage and removed two of his opposing blitzers, killing one (sorry pete). With a two man advantage for the rest of the game Matt moved the ball downfield for an early score to equalise.

Pete recieved witha quarter of the game left. The ball was moved down the centre and secured but the extra skills of the defenders started to have an effect. The ball was soon knocked loose and secured by Matt. Some good blocking freed up a blitzer to pick up the ball and hand it off to a lineman who headed within scoring range. A lone defender put pressure on the ball carrier but he blitzed away with some help to score.

With only a few minutes left on the clock Pete could only attempt to do some damage but didn’t manage it. The game ended 2-1 to Matt.

Luke had set up his team for bashing and all went well. He scored first but lost his ogre leaving Rich with a strength advantage. Rich finally equalised in the dying minutes of the game.


Author: snailracer [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:47 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The second week of the Human league saw all the teams settled in and looking for wins.

Pete was at home to Rich and Matt was on the road to Luke. The pre match programme saw the announcement of the players up for grabs in the mid-season transfer window. It looked suspiciously like the Borstal Reavers had let two players go as two ogres showed up, one with extra strength and guard and the other with AG4 (some unbelievable rolling there!). With the transfer market having two such useful players all the teams were extra keen for the win and the extra revenue that would bring.

Matt lined up against luke and chose to recieve and had more fans in the stadium. The kick off dropped short to a blitzer and confused the attacking lineup. The ball was moved back and left to make it more secure and a melee developed that lasted most of the half. Both teams used a re-roll a turn until they ran out with a quarter gone. The melee did not move from the line of scrimmage in the first quarter and the ball was knocked loose only for matt to recover and use the confusion to head downfield and score with barely any time left in the half. Luke had managed to reduce matts numbers by one after a lineman was refused apothecary treatment and sent to the local dog food factory. Luke had struggled with luck in the first half but was now recieving and looking to turn the game around.

Matts kick off was touched back and the home fans took advantage of the ball in touch to throw anything they had at hand onto the pitch. Several players were struck by rocks but only lukes ogre and one of matts blitzers and catcher went down
(i was rolling 5+’s and only got one!). The felling of the blitzer left the left flank open for luke to run the ball downfield and look for the early score. Some great scramble defence saw the ball recovered and moved back to the LoS. Luke countered and another melee broke out on the right. Some good blocking and dodging saw the ball moved left only for luke to defend and knock the ball loose. A scramble for the ball ensued with matt ultimately picking up and running the ball in under some serious pressure. Luke’s luck was not improving and with only a quarter left a loss looked likely. The blocking had been good but several players had overdone the pre match dinner and were failing to keep their feet (four double skulls over the game!).

Luke fielded the kick off and looked to grab a consolation TD. Unfortunately some great dodging by matts AG4 blitzer saw the ball carrier knocked down and the ball in a position for matt to score. The catcher failed to dodge out and with no time on the clock Luke picked up and threw a quick pass.

The game ended 2-0 to matt, and a thrower got an AG increase with a catcher gaining nerves of steel.

Pete used the home field advantage well and managed to out hit Rich to win fairly comfortably.


Author: Tubes [ Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:08 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

These league sounds great, especially with the team finances! To be honest I’ve always liked the inital stages of a teams development, and you don’t get huge TV differences which can always cause friction.

Funnily enough my next job (for about 3 years!) is going to be a very steady job near Fareham. I’d love to join in on Thur nights. Maybe think about a stunty version of the league: Gobbos & Halflings?


Author: snailracer [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Week three saw all the teams desperate for a win and some income to look at spending on the transfer market.

Rich was home to Matt whilst pete was home to Luke.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:21 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I haven’t tended to have time to post much recently, but I have time now so I’m going to give a summary of my thougths about the HPL so far.
Firstly, my upgrades this far, in leiu of posting a proper roster;
Lineman, Block
Thrower, Accurate
Thrower, Block
Ogre, Guard
Catcher, Block
Blitzer, Dodge
Blitzer, Guard
Blitzer, Guard
Blitzer, Tackle

Not bad after only three games!

My fixtures;
1st game against Luke and I guess I should’ve had the advantage, playing at home and agasint someone who had never used a human team before. But it was a very even game, we both took chances available to us and, although, from what I remember, I had a golden opportunity to win it at the end, I think a draw was a fair result.
2nd game against Pete, who had lost his first fixture agaisnt Matt, was a nightmare. Although I made a tactical error in the first half that Pete exploited, I still could’ve pulled it back had it not been for some really rotten luck. Then he scored a second from an interception and I was 2-0 down at half time. Although I also scored from an interception in the second half, basically my luck throughout the game was horrible and it meant Pete didn’t really have to work for his victory.
3rd game against Matt, the league leader, and karma is a bitch! In the first turn Matt casualtied one of my catchers, who took a ST decrease and I feared that I was in for a repeat of the previous week. I needn’t have worried. Luck was right on my side as a double 1 failed dodge meant I had flooded his backfield and took the ball of his thrower to score in the second turn. His thrower – the one with AG4 – was also killed. I then proceeded to roll 6 after 6, never fail a bonehead with the ogre, casualty his NoS catcher, knock and stun players all over the place, score again before half time and basically blitz Matt so badly he wasn’t gonna recover. I’ve never seen someone roll as many skulls as he did in that game! It ended 3-1 although that almost flatters Matt, it was that one-sided for most of the time. It just goes to show that when luck goes against you, there isn’t much you can do.

So the table is wide open really, with Pete on 3 points, me and Luke both on 4 points and Matt with his nose in front on 6 points, but having his squad the most decimated. I’ve got the msot upgraded players, but Pete and Luke both got hold of great Ogres in the transfer window that might give them the edge. It’s going to be an exciting second half of the season!

In terms of the mechanics, It all seems to be working really well. Considering we did no playtesting, the wages/income/transfer window all seems to be quite smooth and it is effective playing in a structured league. It gives a real sense of developing your team and building rivalries. It also enhances the coaching aspect a bit (or the luck aspect) because all the teams are the same race so you get no games being won because of natural advantage. And that can only be a good thing :-)


Author: snailracer [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:56 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Well the dust has settled on the first season of the human league and Luke ran out winner after a tense final week. The transfer market was interesting, with most teams gaining a specialist or two.


Author: snailracer [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:22 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

There some proposed changes to the rules that I know of:

1. Home field advantage now always gives the home team +1 fame (or +2 if they double the away fans). The home team only fails to get the fame if the away team has twice the number of fans. This gives the away team +1 fame.

2. Home field advantage gives the home team a winnings re-roll even if they lose. If the home team wins they get to roll two dice and pick the highest, and can re-roll one or both dice.

3. End of season transfer market. After completion of the transfer sequence listed above if a team still has less than half the allowed number of any player type (except ogres and halflings) they may purchase one rookie of that type for full value. They are allowed to pay an extra 40k to gain one skill re-roll for that player.

Thoughts? feel free to add any other proposals


Author: The Power Spence [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:20 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

1) Agree with completely.

2) Seems ok, I would probably vote Yes for this.

3) Definite No from me.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:45 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

1. Agreed.
2. Agreed.
3. Not keen. I think being able to replace dead specialists is enough, along with the transfer market.

A clarification on a rule to avoid a minor loophole: You cannot sell a youth player (defined as someone you bought for half price who has the loner skill).


Author: BrizzleRob [ Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:07 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Congratulations on the successful and novel season!


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:57 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Dates;

Guys, I thought it might be a good time to get the rest of the dates for this year fixed?

Thursday 24th November (This week): Luke’s place
Thursday 1st Dec: Break Week
Thursday 8th Dec: I’ve got plans, so suggest a Break Week
Thursday 15th December: My Place
Thursday 22nd: Break Week
Thursday 29th: Would be Matt’s place, but are we all free?
Happy to juggle the dates a bit, if we want to do two weeks in a row at some point, as I think it would be nice to get the opening half of the new season complete before the new year…


Author: snailracer [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:04 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I wont be able to do the 29th. I’d rather lose a break week, either the 1st, 22nd or maybe both.


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Author: Luke [ Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Thought i’d chuck my team sheet up as i’m making an effort to paint team / name players / generally subscribe to fluff a little more.

Ogre 5 5 4 9 Loner, Bone Head, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate, Guard
Blitzer 7 3 3 8 Block
Blitzer 7 3 3 8 Block, dodge, guard
Blitzer 7 3 3 8 Block, guard, single
Blitzer 7 3 3 8 Block, dodge, diving tackle
Thrower 6 3 3 8 Sure hands, pass
Thrower 6 3 3 8 Sure hands, pass, accurate
Catcher 8 2 3 7 Block, sidestep
Lineman 5 3 3 8
Lineman 6 3 3 8 Guard
Lineman 6 3 3 8
Lineman 6 3 3 8 Block, guard
Lineman 6 3 3 8 Block, passblock, tackle

Just out of interest. We can buy Linemen as rookies in the transfer window right? and they have “loner” until their first upgrade?

So i may aswell sell my -1 movement lino who has 0 SPP and replace for exactly the same cost. Just take the hit on him being loner for a game or two.


Author: The Power Spence [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I thought that all players had to be “sold” before the free agents bit.

You could always sack him (but wouldn’t get any money for him). Also lineman can be bought at anytime and do not have the loner skill.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:58 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

To expand – you can sell any of your players in the transfer window, but it is the first thing that happens. So the transfer window just gone, you could have sold him at the start, but you can’t now.
The only way to get him off your roster now is to retire him and gain an Assistant coach. You’d then have to pay 50K for a new lino who, as Pete pointed out, wouldn’t have loner.

What are your thoughts on the dates, guys? I’d be happy to look at what matt has suggested and ditch a break week. Shall we get our calendar’s organised and discuss it on Thursday?


Author: Luke [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Cool, all makes sense.
Best thing to do then i reckon is keep him on the roster for the next 2 games whilst not paying him, and then cash him in for his base value. He has no future at my club. I shall call him Tevez.


Author: The Power Spence [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Part of me wishes we could have bigger squads, then you could have random events where your players just don’t turn up, or get training injuries etc


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:21 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Did somebody post up next season’s fixture list? I can’t find it anywhere now…


Author: snailracer [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:53 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Its under the league table


Author: snailracer [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:33 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The first week of the second season started with two very interesting games.

Pete beat Rich 2-0 in an incredibly bloody encounter. Rich’s ogre was casualtied with the very first block and at one point I think it was five a side!

Matt pulled back a draw against Luke after being 2-0 down with four turns to go!
The first half saw matt choose to kick. The Helm set about defending and managed to turn the ball over just before the half. A long bomb pass was attempted to look for a score but was intercepted byt Lukes ogre and passed back to a waiting blitzer for a score. Receiving in the second half Luke rolled perfect defence and forced the offence into some risky play to look for the score. A failed go for it left the ball carrier unsupported and luke took the opportunity to make it 2-0. The Helm were now also out of re-rolls (used one per turn) The second kick off of the half saw rocks thrown at both teams but neither suffered badly. The Helm moved the ball left then right and worked a catcher into space to score. With barely any time left the Helm kicked off and blitzed. Four players were flung downfield to put pressure on the pick up but it was easily fielded. The thrower headed to the LoS to thro the ball downfield into space and out of TD range. He fumbled leaving the AG4 blitzer a tackle zone pick up to hand off to a waiting blitzer in go for it range. Luke had one final turn to cause damage (and hope for a riot) but neither happened.
I had no luck for 12 turns (i think I rolled 8 or 9 skulls AFTER re-rolls, and the interception and perfect defence nearly finished me off) but then had incredible luck for the last four turns as Luke had Lady Luck desert him. Stupid game. As Luke said afterwards it would be nice to have a game where the luck is even throughout.

An interesting start and Pete is top of the league :)


Author: DOOM [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:34 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Quote:
As Luke said afterwards it would be nice to have a game where the luck is even throughout

This will never happen! It’s the nature of the game to be random and unfair.

Great to hear the second season’s kicked off! Sounds really exciting! Can’t wait for the season to progress!


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:50 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

For info, as Pete and Matt finished their game early and left; our game ended up 2-1 to Luke.


Author: snailracer [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:46 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

We’re still on for tonight. I dont have a phone so just thought i’d make sure you all know


Author: The Power Spence [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:29 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Yep,

We are planning to be at your’s around 6:30ish :)


Author: DOOM [ Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:26 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The league seems like a huge success so far, to the outside observer anyway.

I really enjoy reading about it and looking at the league table and the transfer market. Seems like you’ve designed a great way for future BB leagues to be played! Can’t wait for the next installment!

One thing I would really like to see is thread with each teams fluff in. I know most people aren’t into the whole background thing, but I think it’d help outside viewers to know the coaches, basic team background and give the league more of a setting. I really like how Rich and pete have got proper Imperial themed teams. Would be great to do a regional competition with a team from every major Imperial state – we could even let people play as the Reikland Reavers and Middenheim Marauders.

Anyway, keep up the good work!


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Just a note to respond to an interesting point Julian has made. I’m actualy not sure the league is working effectively, although it’s not necessarily down to the rules.
Since the first transfer window when we flukily rolled two Ogres, things have started to become unbalanced. Luke’s AG4 Ogre was basically unstoppable and, with respect to Luke, was the reason he won the first season.
Then again we rolled a load of 3 skilled players in the end of season transfer window, enough to create unbalance if they weren’t spread evenly.
This is exactly what happened. Specifically I lost out in the transfer market, with Luke and Pete bagging most of the players.
Since then, I’ve lost 2 games and drawn 1 (with Matt) because I cannot compete. Each game I’m already at a massive disdvantage.
This is supposed to be offset, to a certain extent, by inducements. I should’ve been getting a lot of inducements and this money goes straight into the bank – I was looking forward to the next transfer window where my additional funds would help me get my squad back to a level where I could compete.
But I lost out in the transfer window again, because the differences in money wasn’t enough – Pete and Luke still had enough funds to outspend me if necessary to buy the player they most wanted, while I tried to pay over the odds for several players to improve my squad and lost out on them all basically.
So I now face the final three games of the season with apprehension. I don’t mind losing and indeed in regular LBBL it was ok to lose one week knowing that the following week you’d use a different team against a different opponent and just have a clean slate almost.
With a structured league like this, the gap between the teams keeps on growing and there isn’t a lot I can do about it. Therefore it is becoming a lot less fun for me to play.

I’d be intrested to hear from the others as to whether they think it’s just me being sour grapes or if they think the system is flawed, or is it just that we rolled an unusually high number of really good players in the window?


Author: BrizzleRob [ Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I could well imagine that mismatches in teams will only grow over time. I don’t know if it would greatly help but I have previously (from the sidelines) mused over a draft system (see here). It would heavily limit initial specialist. Possibly at the end of every season another draft would be run, with the lowest ranked teams having first pick…and a team salary/value cap!


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Author: snailracer [ Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I agree to a certain extent that the quality of the transfer players has been too high. With hindsight I agree that the two ogres should have been re-rolled and would possibly suggest a skills cap on player types (Ogre 1 skill, blitz and catch max 2 skill, or D6 1-1 skill 2345-2 skill 6-3 skill, or similar to be agreed on etc). I would say however that we did have a really flukey initial roll up and its balanced itself out since.

I think overall the system is working quite well. Luke and Pete have both spent ludicrous amounts of cash on players (probably on average 3 times their values) whereas most of Rich’s bids have been no-where near ludicrous enough. The transfer market is a bit poker like in that respect and you need to think about how other players are bidding and not just the player values.

I dont think an initial draft would work but end of season drafts may be a decent option. Basically we’d be replacing the closed bid system with allowing the ‘worst’ team to have first pick. How we determine worst team may also be contentious; is it the team that finished last, the team with lowest TV, the team with the most missing specialists? etc.

The salary cap idea would balance the teams out nicely and give you lots of decisions to make regarding which players to keep in the squad (a couple of uber guys or a whols team of one skillers) but deciding on the cap value could prove tricky.

I would also like to point out that I finished second in the first season (by 1 point) with no real uber players and cannot win in the second season despite having a very high TV (and should probably apologise for my behaviour in our last game. It was really frustrating and I really shouldn’t have managed a draw).

Ultimately this league is playtesting as it goes and we want to keep it fun for all involved. If this is becoming a real issue then we will have to look at the rules. I would say give it to the end of the season and see how it pans out.


Author: DOOM [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:35 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Sad to hear there are some negatives, but as people are saying, it’s an experimental league. I’m probably seeing it through rose tinted glasses from my outside view.

If there was to be a draft system it should be the team who finish bottom who get the first pick (the Dallas Cowboys have a massive budget in the NFL, but still never do very well and get a draft position according to that and not their supposed player quality).

Ideas I have considering everything that has been said are:

– At the end of each session every team is capped on the amount total salary of players they can keep on their roster, any players removed from teams are placed into a draft.
– Young players are randomly generated with up to 2 skills max and put into a draft system. All these players start with Loner until they achieve their first upgrade with the team.
– The losing team in the league has first pick yadda yadda…
– There are only 3 rounds of the draft. Once concluded all remaining players are placed onto a transfer list with a random chance of leaving at this time and after any subsequent season.
– Players taken in the draft must be paid for at their total value (the advantage of drafting being that you don’t need to bid against anyone).
– After the draft has been resolved and undrafted players have been confirmed as staying on the list you then go into a transfer window where teams bids of any players they might like in the usual manner, as per the last 2 seasons.
– At mid season teams have an opportunity to place players on the transfer list and for another transfer window, as per usual.

My thinking would be that the salary cap imposed at the end of the season would be quite brutal so teams have to seriously consider who they will keep and are forced to remove roughly 1/3 of their team, thus making the draft and transfer window mandatory to get back upto the team minimum of 11 players. Maybe even as brutal as 1 million gold post season salary cap. This way a top class player might take up as much as a quarter of your team value, so each team will have to consider value for money and think about keeping only 7-8 players on going into the draft.

When it comes to the transfer window I would also suggest there are multiple rounds, so if people have money left, but have been outbid on all players (a la Rich J’s predicament), then they can pick remaining players up in a second round of bidding. This could add another level of strategy and help to reduce the amount of insane bids of single players… But obviously, if the player is that good then you might want to go all or nothing? :)

To balance everything you may also need to look at gate income for every game, so people don’t get hordes of moneys.

Also, it should be noted I haven’t suggested implimenting a salary cap after the draft. You should always remember that if you invest a lot into big value players you’ll have to sacrifice a lot of your squad at the end of the season to keep them, or the league loser might well pick him up with his first pick.

Thoughts?


Author: The Power Spence [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:57 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

As previously mentioned to the guys on several occasions, I would have much preferred a draft system and basically the “free agents” would be people that the clubs are ditching. That would stop random super players entering the league.

However, under the current rule set, I personally think the league is working fine. Last season, I spent a lot of money on the Ogre, he had a very average first 3 games and didn’t do a great deal (has had a MUCH better second season). I ended up dishing out inducment money and finishing bottom of the league. When it came to the end of season transfer window, I had about 200k in the bank whereas everyone else had nearer 450k+, so I luckily picked up a Blitzer (at cost) which no one else wanted and Rich’s Halfling as that was all I could afford.

In the second season I have been receiving inducement money due to my low TV. I went into the second window knowing that RIch had a very similar amount of cash. Knowing this I stuck 2 huge bids in for the 2 players I wanted the most and put back up bids on others if I didn’t get my first choice.

I think the problem RIch has faced is that (not wanting to call it greed) he has tried, especially in the last window, to win all the players and having to spread his money thinner, rather than as myself and Luke did, pick a player and go for it.

But as he has barely spent anything in the last 2 windows, maybe next window he could dominate as I know I would probably at most have about 300k if I roll well for winnings.

I’m hopeful on winning this season as I am 3 points clear at the 1/2 way point. But as in blood bowl, I’lll probably roll nothing but 1s from now! ;)


Author: Tubes [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:26 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I’ll just put my 2 pence worth in… After a brief read of the recent posts I think what Pete has said about the bidding is the cause of the ‘problem’. Also maybe not having mega players joining would be more benificual for the league.

Overall I agree with Ju’s idea as it would eliminate this current issue.


Author: The Power Spence [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:25 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The ideas I had put forward previously were to have a squad salary cap of say 180k or 200k per match, currently mine is 149k I think.

Coaches would then have to get rid of players to reduce the cost of wages by selling or firing or whatever, these players if released, go into the free agents list in the transfer window.

I also suggested that for every “summer window” 8 players are rolled in the same way they are now. But only having one uprgade each, they would then be drafted by the clubs in the “worst first” based on final league position. I think that the players should have the upgrade rolled but not allocated. This leaves the picking coach to decide what the “potential” is that he saw in them.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Just a response to my ‘greed’ problem… ;-)
I felt I had to try and pick up more than one player in the window because my squad was that badly off compared to others in the league. I wouldn’t necessarily say I was spreading my money thinly when I still bid over 300K for a player worth 180K. It’s just that because you and Luke have already got good squads and are winning games, you can cherry pick the best player in the window and vastly overspend on that player to maintain the gap in our squads. Sure I could’ve focussed my funds hugely on one player too, but then I wouldn’t have been increasing my squad enough to catch up with you.
The problem you describe with the Ogre is bad luck – if you purchase a player than the monetary advantage you give up needs to be reflected in that player performing, and if he doesn’t, like your ogre, then that’s harsh.
But my situation isn’t luck, I haven’t got good players underperforming I don’t have the players to compete.
We’ve created a system like the Premier League where the rich successful teams can perpetuate that and the lesser teams can’t keep up.
The point you make about me having lots of money to spend in the next transfer window… that’s exactly what I thought would happen in this one, but I was outbid again.
And it still isn’t exactly fun to play three games with almost guaranteed losses just to get to the next window (which, as it happens, is when we’re finishing the season anyway).

It’s definitely an experiment that we’ve been doing, but personally I wouldn’t call it a success. I think it needs further tweaking and perhaps a draft system of some sort would suit better. As has been pointed out, at the end of the day we play for fun and for me that is starting to not be the case. If the system was ‘wrong’ in some way that ended up with all the teams having loads of money or a type of player being ineffective or something then fair enough, it’s wrong but we can still play the game and enjoy it.

Something like the draft system would hopefully help keep the weakest team in touch with the others and make the games more competitive.


Author: The Power Spence [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:30 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Although, unlike the Premier League, Norwich don’t get given a shed load of cash to play Man Utd just because Man Utd’s squad is worth a lot more. Myself, Matt and Luke have fairly similar TVs so essentially you will gain the most money. We will be getting some from winnings, but not 200-300k lump sums for inducements.

Also my squad (up until the last window) hasn’t been that special (not sure where this image of me having had such a brilliant squad comes from). I also finished last in the previous season, but with the money i recouped in the last few games and with some good wins, I have replaced my rubbish players with some really good ones. In a way it’s nothing like the Premier League, as next season, in theory, you should have a hugely improved sqaud, much in the same formula as what I have accomplished.

I still have a small squad but 3 of my Blitzers and the Ogre are just very good and I had to pay way over the odds to get them.

If you think back to the “summer window”. If combined you had bid about 15k more then you would have won all those players Luke got. If anything it’s just bad luck/bad judgement/bad poker skills on your part.


Author: snailracer [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I tend to agree with Pete here. He has rebuilt his squad cleverly using the large amounts of cash he had available due to inducements and has ended up top of the league. Who’s to say this wont happen for Rich next season?

I don’t think there is much of a gap between the teams. This was demonstrated in my last game when I had lost two players (one to death and one MNG) and I gained inducements from Rich instead of him getting 200k. A few dice rolls and Rich would have won the game and suddenly I would be bottom of the league.

I would like to see how the season pans out and then make a decision on transfer markets.

Also I know exactly how much fun it is to lose three (and more) games in a row (yes ok I was playing ogres but…). The structured league does force teams to play similar TV games and not pick opponents like we did/do in the LBBL. Maybe it would be interesting to play a league using tournament rules with all of us using teams of exactly the same TV….

As for drafts maybe we should try it anyway and see how it goes. I would be wary of too low a salary cap as half the fun of blood bowl for me is seeing players develop. It would start to annoy me if just as a player got interesting he fucked off.

I’m actually quite happy with the current system and maybe with a few tweaks it would work a lot better.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

“If you think back to the “summer window”. If combined you had bid about 15k more then you would have won all those players Luke got. If anything it’s just bad luck/bad judgement/bad poker skills on your part.”

Fine, it’s on me, but the point still stands that having failed in the transfer window for whatever reason I’m now fucked for the next three games minimum. That’s a fault in the system that punishes me disproportionally for bidding poorly.

“He has rebuilt his squad cleverly using the large amounts of cash ”

He didn’t have to rebuild his squad. He had a ST6 Ogre from the first transfer window and picked up a blitzer becuase no-one was in the market for him. All I got was a halfling and I lost a catcher, leaving me with only 11 players.
The reason he finished bottom in the first season was a mixture of bad luck/bad coaching because in the first season the teams were roughly even.

“Also I know exactly how much fun it is to lose three (and more) games in a row ”

Point is, if you got tired of playing with the Ogres, you can play with the Warriors. Every week you’re also playing a different race. Playing a human team against a better human team every week is a lot less fun.

Or maybe it’s just me being a sore loser. That’s fine, I’ll just suck it up and get on with it.


Author: The Power Spence [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

“He didn’t have to rebuild his squad. He had a ST6 Ogre from the first transfer window and picked up a blitzer becuase no-one was in the market for him.”

But I also lost (as in dead) a Blitzer (in the first game), a guard lino in the 4th and my av9 thrower in the 6th. When I got into the summer window I only had 10 players and 200k in the bank. I didn’t have any choice on who I bought. If you guys had decided to go for those blitzers then you would have more that likely won them. I then had to buy that halfling just so I had a 12th player.

“All I got was a halfling and I lost a catcher, leaving me with only 11 players.”

Well back to my previous point. Spend more money! That’s what everyone else is doing. You chose to sell players and took the risk that you might not win others. If you had put more money down (I believe you had the most money for every window anyway) then you would have been fine. There are no major (there are a few minor ones, maybe) faults in the system. You’ve just been outbid and not had a plan b.


Author: snailracer [ Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:25 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Ok I’m a bit confused now Rich. Is your main complaint that the transfer system is unfair or are you fed up of the league in general? I can fully understand that it might be getting a bit repetitive only playing human teams, and that not doing well for a run of games will get you down (my record with all teams is pretty shit tbh). Maybe at the end of this season we suspend the league for a few weeks and play a few LBBL games? I’d like to get the Necro team going again, probably from scratch having lost a flesh golem very early! :)

With regards to the transfer system; I think we’ve all got a bit caught up in saving money possibly at the expense of doing better in games. In LBBL games 200k inducements does quite a good job of evening up the teams, and in this league a win is probly just as good as losing with money in the bank. Ultimately we all generate pretty much enough money every game to pay wages. Maybe the amount of winnings/wages needs altering?

The other point to consider is now that all teams have full or nearly full compliments of specialists the bidding/availability becomes easier (barring deaths).


Author: Luke [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I would be inclined to think that the error (as mentioned in previous posts by many of you) doesn’t lie in the “Transfer Window” system we’ve developed, but rather in the constraints we have placed on number of players / skills. This has in turn resulted in “rookie” teams signing superstars way above their level ( yes – admittedly my ogre ) which has thrown the league out of whack.
I’m personally enjoying the “ongoing development” aspect of participating in a structured league – so as long as that continues, i am open to it being “bidding” or a “draft system”. I will however say that in both windows thus far, i have spent absolutely down to my last penny and gone in strong on who I wanted. Risking paying over the top by some way and also risking not being able to afford my wages. Our primary aim should be to create a system that everyone enjoys, so if this isn’t working, let’s try something else. But if i can be direct – the problem has really come from Rich not going in large enough. In my opinion, the maths of it all (eg; getting more bankable enducements if your T.V is less) works fine. But if you then choose to go and make (yes o.k – huge bids if they were in the LBBL) moderate bids with that money in the window, you may lose out and may end up with a weaker squad. I think there are some fundamental differences in what people are regarding as “big bids”. In this short term league, the only thing that matters at the end is points on the board, not money in the bank. I’ve been handing ridiculous sums of enducements over to people every fixture. So when i manage to win yet another half decent player in the latest window. It’s not because i’ve got the most money. The way in which we bid does essentially enable you to turn down purchase, so i would advise you go ridiculous on what you offer. It just comes down to what you interperate as ridiculous.

Anyways, i believe the plan is to do it over with Orks – so lets try a “draft system” and do a compare / contrast at the end of what we think worked better.
Overall though – in real world terms, Rich’s evenings are his personal time and the time Matt spends driving to BB evenings etc are outlays of expenses by each of us that attend. If anyone is genuinely not enjoying it, i have no probs with them bowing out, nobody should feel bound to use their evenings for self torture ;-)

Hope you all had a great crimbo and happy new year!


Author: snailracer [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The first week back after the Christmas (extended) break saw Matt take on Luke and Rich take on Pete.

Rich put up a decent fight but found himself 2-0 with barely any time left. The TTM that ended the match 2-1 should go down in history as one of the best in LBBL history (helped hugely by an AG4 Halfling). A tactic to be very wary of when playing Rich from now on!

Matt was hoping the home advantage would help secure the first win of the season. The crowd turnout was poor but they still managed to riot before KO. The game lost a quarter of the first half before the crowd was calmed. Luke chose to recieve and soon moved the ball to the ogre. Some valiant defending saw the ball stopped on the LoS but the downfield catcher was still a threat. The defence were helped out hugely by the ball carrying ogre refusing to move for two turns (both re-rolled with a 4+ and still failed!). With barely any time left on the clock the catcher was flattened and all but the ogre were marked. Some clever blocking freed a blitzer who ran to the endzone just as the ogre finally woke up and threw a TD pass. There was enought time on the clock for Matts 3 KO’d players to come back, unfortunately the ogre was out and MNG.

Luke set up a wall of defence for the second half. Matt freed two catchers and a blitzer downfield and prayed that the thin line would hold to givt eh thrower some cover. One blitzer broke through and flattened the thrower guarding the ball carrier, putting the pressure on.Luckily for the downfield catcher the diving tackle defender failed a GFI. The ball carrying thrower headed upfield and fired a long pass at the NoS catcher. The ball was easily caught and he dodged out to score a two turn TD. The crowd feared that the score was too early but the coach was betting on his defence!

Luke set up to recieve and set about clearing space on the LoS. His blocking was less effective than the first half but he still removed a defender. The ball was in easy range of his thrower, who picked up and threw a quick pass straight over the head of his team mate!(2, pass skill, 2). This gave the defence chance to pressure the ball. A lineman put a tackle zone on the ball while a blitzer was knocked off the pitch to even the numbers up. In a risky move the defence ignored the downfield ogre. Luke managed to remove the defender from the ball and pick up. The ogre was open but the pass was fumbled! (1, pass skill, 1). The ball was sat on the LoS and easily picked up by Matts thrower and sent downfield to the AG4 lineman who until recently had been pressuring the opposition. The ball was secured and another lineman moved up to support. Most of Lukes team were tied up but he managed to get a blitzer up and hit the ball carrier. The ball carrier ended up closer to the line and had more of his team mates move up to support. Luke threw the blitzer forward through two tackle zones to hit the ball carrier but he fell and KO’ himself. This effectively ended the defence so Matt handed the ball off to a lineman and secured it for a last minute TD.

The final score Matt 2-1 Luke.

Another odd game where nothing went right in the first half but all came to me in the second, ably assisted by Luke’s thrower who just didn’t want his team to win. I think I took a bit of a risk with the tactics and could easily have lost the game, but this is a league and ultimately its all about the big W. And I’m still unbeaten this season….until I play Pete next, without my ogre.


Author: snailracer [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:27 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The penultimate week of the second season of the Human league saw Pete take on Matt and Luke take on Rich. For the league to stay competitive into the final week Matt needed to beat Pete and Luke needed to win. Rich was out to spoil Lukes party and Pete was hoping to wrap up the title with a week to go.

A huge 35000 strong crowd turned out to see Matt kick off. Pete recieved and immediately set about demolishing the defence, helped by a quick snap. The ogre caused a casualty straight away but found himself downfield unsuported. Matt took the opportunity to surround him and knock him down and then foul him. The ogre left the field and will miss the next game. The fouler was sent off but the coach felt it was worth it. With the numbers even it looked like being a balanced half but Pete had other ideas and proceeded to knock down everyone he threw a block against. The defence tried to scramble but was soon reduced to five players and Pete ran the clock down to score at the death. The referee decided Matt had enough time to recieve a kick off and then changed his mind to allow matt two turns.
A mad scramble ensued to get two catchers downfield and the ball secured on the LoS. Pete covered the catchers but had to watch as the ball carrier threw a short pass to the NoS catcher in two TZ’s. He dodged through to score and level the game at the half.

Matt recieved the ball and decided to go for an early TD as he had only managed to set up 7 players. The catchers again headed downfield and a long bomb was thrown. The pass missed but ended up on the floor next to the catcher. Pete moved up to put TZ’s on the ball. The catcher went for it but failed to dodge and handed the ball to Pete. With the ball safe Pete started to conveyor belt defenders off the pitch (two guys got stuck on the sideline after the initial freeing of the catchers and soon found themselves off the pitch. One of which got up and threw a two dice you choose block. Double skulls. Re-roll. No result. Pushed off pitch).
The defence scrambled well and Petes blocking became less effective (not every block was a defender down!). In trying to run down the clock pete had left his catcher in blitz range of a lineman who dodged out and finally knocked the ball carrier down. A thrower was in range and he picked up to throw a long bomb downfield to the waiting catcher. He fumbled (threw an inaccurate pass and re-rolled for a 1). Pete failed to pick up and gave the thrower a second chance. The downfield catcher dodged out to get himself open and the pass was thrown. It didnt look good but found its target (Inaccurate and this time the re-roll was good). The catch was made. All that was needed was to survive the oncoming blitz and the score was certain. The blitz failed and the catcher dodged out to score. There was enough time on the clock for pete to recieve and he hoped for the ref to turn the clock back but he didnt oblige and the game ended 2-1 to Matt.

Another crazy game. No idea how I ended up winning that. It was definitely from the ‘well I’m going to lose anyway so I might as well try it’ book of tactics. Amazingly not one of my FIVE casualtied players suffered any ill effects and my ogre will be back next game, which probably means Rich will beat me easily!


Author: Luke [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:48 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Matt had to rush off so thought i’d let everyone know we all rolled some pretty mean upgrades.

Pete rolled AG on a catcher,

Rich rolled a ST on a catcher,

and the 2 TD’s and 1 casualty put my ogre on 51SPP and he rolled a double, so is now AG4 Block!

I also rolled singles on a blitzer and a lino – yawn.

Can’t believe the leagues so in the balance going into the last week! with Pete having his ogre MNG against me, i dare say “fancy my chances” (so will inevitably lose 4-0)

The final twist would be if Rich could beat Matt in his final game. Unbelievable Geoff!


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Author: snailracer [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

What was your final score so i can update the table?


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:47 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Final score was 2-1 to Luke, no magic comebacks for me.
Horrible game, Luke was dominant throughout and I lost my Ogre in the first turn. One of my blitzers died as well as an MNG thrower, so I only have 11 players (including a halfling) for the final game against Matt.


Author: snailracer [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:26 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

The final week of season two is upon us and three teams are still in with a shot at the title!

Pete: A win against Luke and he wins the league. A draw and he wins if Matt loses or draws (GD). If he loses he can still win if Matt loses or draws and Luke doesn’t win by more than 1 TD.

Matt: A win and pete losing or drawing and he wins the league. A draw and Pete losing with Luke winning by two or less.

Luke: A win by two and Matt losing. A win by three and Matt drawing.

Unfortunately Rich finishes bottom whatever happens.

It’s all quite exciting and should prove to be an interesting evening seeing how the games are going :)


Author: Luke [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

So i’m essentially relying on Rich with a bare 11, a halfling, and no Ogre, to beat Matts “undefeated” team. Or draw with him IF i pull a miraculous 3-0 out my behind? Although i would love to be crowned retaining league champ – i will be bloody surprised if i get anywhere near.
Awesome that there is so much tension in the final week considering it could have already been wrapped up.
I seem to remember about 3 games ago Matt stating he was going to be “the first player to be undefeated and lose a league”.
How things have swung! This is exactly the excitement needed to inject some life back into the league which has gone a bit stale.


Author: snailracer [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:00 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I could still be undefeated and lose if you dont at least draw with Pete. I’m relying on you Luke!

Pete has also informed me that his GD is +4. I think I need to check all the scores so I know everyone’s GD is correct (in other words I need everyone else in the league to check my adding up :) )


Author: The Power Spence [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

My TD diffence is currently +4 not +3.

So for Matt to win by drawing with Rich, Luke would have to win 3-0.

But then in that situation Luke would win on TD difference….


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:53 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Yes I must admit to be so excited that I can possibly finish last in the league if results go my way…

;-)

BTW I do at least have my ogre to play agasint Matt. Also I might have some inducment money and I certainly don’t need to invest it in my treasury…


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:56 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Also, if I were a betting man, I’d bank on Matt to take the title.

I think he will beat me and I think Pete and Luke will have a close game that will end in a draw.

You heard it here first :-)


Author: BrizzleRob [ Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:55 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I take it from Snailracer’s team states update that he won the league. Any notable events?


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:29 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Matt beat me as expected. It was 3-1 in the end, the main problem being that the inducement cards I bought did litle to even up the contest.
Even then I was a little unlucky at key points and it could’ve been a lot closer.

Pete, by all accounts, had a mare against Luke, continuing his bad run from the previous week. His inducements also failed spectacularly (his wizard in particular rolling a 1) and with his Ogre missing too Luke sailed to an unlikely 3-0 win leaving Pete to drop from 1st to 3rd.


Author: Luke [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Unfortunately our game was one heavily influenced by the dice, as Rich said, Pete’s inducements failed miserably, even when he caused my catcher (about to score) to have “no hands” for the rest of the game. I still got another player to the dropped ball and scored anyway due to superior numbers.
With the presence of the ogre and the fact i casualtied one of Pete’s “guard” players early on – the traditional domino effect took place and superior numbers caused me to have more 2 dice blocks all over the field. Where Pete did manouvre to get 2 dice he generally knocked me down but failed to break any armour (even against catchers which was really unlucky). Just when things were going against him anyway, i rolled 2 perfect defences on the k.o table to rub salt in the wound. Given the line ups and Pete’s bare 11, i had hoped to win before the game.
A 2-0 would have been fair ( i.m.o ) given the line-ups and casualties i caused early on. But a 3-0 was heavily flattering. Another game decided more by fate than managerial excellence. The only thing i will say is that although absolutely no concellation to Pete, i see it as making up for the defeat i suffered to Matt when the dice absolutely screwed me. Swings and roundabouts and all that.


Author: snailracer [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:45 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

Both games had the usual blood bowl luck. I went two nil up very quickly and once it was three I knew it was sewn up and threw some risky plays in. rich should have scored another but nuffle was against him.

I think we need a new topic on doctoring the inducements so that they are never negative.

Pretty good human league for me: second and first :)


Author: DOOM [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:05 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Human League

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed watching the Human League! Looking forward to the Orc League now, but am excited that you’ll nail how to do it properly and come back to the human league.

Well done Matt!

p.s – 1000th post in the LBBL forums!


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