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The Orc League
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Author: snailracer [ Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: The Orc League

Orc Pro-League Offcial Rules.

1. The league participants shall be Peter Spence, Richard Jackson, Luke Johnson and Matthew Lambert.

2. Each coach will be given 1,050,000 GP to start a rookie Orc team for entry into a separate league from the LBBL. 50,000 GP must be spent buying a re-roll. Fan Factor will be automatically set at 3 for no cost.

3. The rookie team will be made up from the following roster:
0-16 Linemen
0-4 Goblins
0-4 Blitzers
0-4 Black Orcs
0-2 Throwers
0-1 Troll
0-1 Bombadier
0-1 Looney
0-1 Pogoer
0-8 Re-rolls (50K)

When selecting the starting roster, a coach is not allowed to select a total number of Blitzers and Black Orcs that exceed 6. Any combination of these two player types can be selected up to roster limits (0-4), but the total combined cannot exceed 6.

4. Once the league has begun, a coach may bring in additional players in the following ways;

A/ Journeyman Orc Linemen or Goblins (not specialist Goblins) may be bought prior to any game even if the coach has 11 fit players on the roster. They start with loner and may be hired after the game as per normal rulings.
B/ During the Transfer Window (after 3 games mid-season and after 6 games end of season) unwanted players (from the draft or unpaid) can be bid on and bought
C/ During the Transfer Window coaches can make offers for players on other coaches rosters
D/ At the end of the season, before the transfer window, a player will be assigned to your roster from the animosity pool
E/ At the end of the season, before the transfer window, a free draft will take place

5. The league season will consist of 6 games, two games being played against each opponent in the league (home and away). Each coach will gain 3 points for winning a game and 1 point for drawing a game. At the end of the season the coach with the most points is the winner of the league. After 6 games, the league points will reset but the teams will continue for a further 6 games to represent seasons.

6. When the gate is rolled before each game, multiply the figure by 10 to get the ticket sales in GP. The ticket sales are divided equally between the two teams, the money being placed in their treasury at the end of the game. As there is no winnings roll in the orc league, the following additional methods of income also apply;

A/ The Winning Team gains 10K
B/ The Home Team gains 10K
C/If the Away Team had double the number of Fans to the Home Team, they also get 10K
D/ If the game is drawn, each team gets 5K
E/ Sponsorship money

7. Playing at home carries certain advantages as follows;

A/ The home team gains one bribe for free.
B/ The home team coach may re-roll his rolls on the kick-off table. He must accept the second result.
C/ The Home team always has the FAME in relation to Kick-Off table results.

8. At the end of the game the coach must pay his players for their services. Each player needs to be paid 10% of their value. If the coach hasn’t got enough money in the treasury to pay the whole team he must decide which players to pay. Mark on the roster which players have been paid. If a player was not paid for a previous game, the coach may chose to pay that player’s wages after subsequent games, in order that the player is paid the correct amount.

9. For each game, two MVPs will be awarded. One will be the coach’s choice and the other will be a random selection inclusive of the whole squad.

10. In every transfer window roll a dice for each player that has not been paid at least once since the start of the league. On the roll of a 1, that player leaves the team and goes into the pile of unwanted players. For each game that the player has not been paid since the start of the league, subtract 1 from the dice roll.

11. During the transfer window any coach may bid on any player in the unwanted players pool. They bid an amount of money from their treasury to secure that player’s services for their own team. The amount offered must be at least equal to the value of the player. The highest bidder can add the player to their roster.

12. A coach may bid on a player that would exceed the limits of the roster, e.g. a fifth blitzer, as long as at the end of the transfer window their roster limits are adhered to. Any coach may offer players on their team in exchange or as part of a bid – this is up to the coach’s discretion and does not need to necessarily reflect the value of the player being bid on or offered in exchange e.g. a coach could offer a 90K blitzer in exchange for a 70K catcher.

13. During the transfer window a coach can also make a direct offer to another coach for one of their players. It is up to the coach of that player to negotiate, accept or reject any bids for their players. If a bid is accepted then the money goes into the team’s treasury and the player changes rosters.

14. No international market is available. Unwanted players cannot be sold for base value. The only income generated from player sales is if another coach actively bids on a player on your roster. The only exception is an injured player. If a player suffers a stat decrease, they may be ‘retired’ from the game. Remove them from your roster and add an assistant coach.

15. At the end of season draft there will be a free draft before the transfer window. There are twelve draft places filled by randomly generated players. Eight players will be selected by coaches in the order described below, the remaining four unwanted players will go into the transfer window to be bought. For each generated player, roll 2D6:
2 – Troll
3 – Thrower
4 – Goblin/Thrower (d3 – 1+2 = Goblin)
5 – Goblin
6 – Lineman
7 – Lineman
8 – Lineman
9 – Blitzer
10 – Blitzer/Black Orc (d3 – 1+2 = Blitzer)
11 – Black Orc
12 – Troll
For all Goblins generated, roll a d6, on a 4+ it is a specialist. Additional d3 to decide which one (even chance for the 3).
Each player starts with one skill roll having been made. The player is not allocated a skill until bought by a team. The player is awarded the exact amount of SPPs needed to have gained a skill.
Draft order in the Orc League is determined in a reverse-record order (the previous season’s worst team picking first, the winner picking last). There are two rounds so each team gets two picks (so everyone makes one pick in order and then we go round again). Picks can be traded e.g. the team with first pick may want two players from round two so would trade a first round pick and therefore have no first round pick.
Draft players are free. Once placed on your roster add their cost for team value and wage purposes. Any unwanted draft players go into the unwanted players pool to be bid on during the transfer window.

16. Animosity pool. At the end of every game, if your team did not win the game, randomly place an animosity mark next to one of the players on your roster. At the end of the season the team that is lowest in the league standings selects one of his players that has an animosity mark. Each other coach must select a player on their roster of the same type that the first coach selected. This player does not have to have an animosity mark. All 4 selected players go into the animosity pool and then are randomly distributed to the 4 teams. Players allocated should be added to the roster. If a coach does not want their allocated player, he goes into the unwanted players pool. All animosity marks are then removed before the start of the next season.

17. Sponsorship. At the start of the season, 5 sponsors will be randomly picked to be available for selection for the forthcoming season. In the first season, the order for the teams to select a sponsor will be randomised. In subsequent seasons, the selection order will be based on league standing, i.e. the league winner selects first. The sponsor will stay with the team for one full season only. Sponsors are as follows;

Orcidas:
15k per game + additional 30k win bonus (per win) AND 1 player can have Sprint or Sure Feet (choose when sponsor is picked)

Iron Brute:
Additional D6 fans (home and away) for sponsored team (keeping all additional money) AND 1 player can have +1AV (choose when sponsor is picked)

Bloodweiser:
30k per game flat rate AND 1 Free Bloodweiser Babe every game.

Le Gob Sportif:
10k per goblin on roster per game AND one goblin on your team gets Dirty Player and Sneaky Git

Gore-Tex:
10k per game + additional 5k completion bonus (per pass) AND 1 player can have Catch (choose when sponsor is picked)

Knee Kappa:
10k per game + additional 5k casualty bonus (per casualty) AND 1 player can have Stab or Mighty Blow (choose when sponsor is picked)

Reborc:
15K per game + additional income per game of 1k x No. of SPPs earned AND 1 player can have Leader or Pro(choose when sponsor is picked)

Ebeneezer Goode:
30k per game + additional 10K per death (either team) AND 1 player can have Regeneration (choose when sponsor is picked)

18. Special Orc league Miscellaneous rules;

A/ One Bribe per game can be bought at the cost of 10K. All subsequent bribes cost the normal amount of 50k.
B/ Any casualty caused by fouling gains 1 SPP for the player that committed the foul.


Author: Luke [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:54 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

So just to clarify, no “generated” players at all in the mid season window, only internal club transfers?
It’s unlikely many people will want to sell players in that 1st mid-season window. Since very few skills will have been gained in 3 games. So if anyone loses a specialist in the 1st game they’re gonna b pretty screwed. I would be keen to have the draft system completely as suggested but do half the players drafted in the mid season and half at end of season. I can’t see anyone making use of the mid season window otherwise. This may throw up a discussion about “picking”, as league positions may change. And as i say – if anyone were to lose a key player, anyone else would want to rob them blind for an unbelievable sum of cash to let theirs go. If the system is open to someone losing 2 blitzers in game 1 and just having to deal with it for a whole season – that isn’t really good enough IMO.
Also – i personally would be very keen not to include the goblin specialists as i just think it’s an uneeded extra and from a models point of view. We all have ork models. Obviously needs to go to a group vote though.
Any thoughts……?


Author: The Power Spence [ Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:28 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

I’ve been working on some transfer rulings to get around this free agent issue and mid season transfer window.

Perhaps for purposes of keeping the rosters full (as in replacing dead people). You could say that Rookie players (of any position) can be bought at cost as per normal bb? Just a quick thought that though.

In other random Orcyness-ness, I am working on some sort of animosity rule where players will move clubs during the transfer window.

1 idea I had was for every team to put in 1 of each of their positions, eg: 1 Black Orc, 1 Blitzer, 1 Thrower, 1 Lineman 1 Goblin etc, “into a hat” (1 hat per position – meaning black orcs in 1, blitzers in another etc etc). Then you would pick them (maybe this could be the mid season draft?) and that’s what you end up with? Would really add to the total randomness of the Orcs.

Just some quick ideas there to make it all different.

I’m still currently working on sponsors.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:19 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Some quick thoughts.
1. I agree with Luke about the mid-season transfer window; if there are no new players, we could be looking at a worst case scenario of someone taking heavy casualties and then being screwed for the next 4 games. I would either say that we have no mid-season window and rookie players can be as normal, or we split the draft so 4 players are done midway and 4 are done at the end of the season.
I think I actually prefer the second option, that way the team in last place mid-season picks up a boost, it means the team who finishes last at the end of the season doesn’t get both of the best players and it also means we have some excitment after three games.

2. I disagree with Luke about the goblin specialists. Although it’s a pain to get the models, I think it will be awesome for us all to use them. I had been saying to Pete that after the very rigid ‘serious’ nature of the human league, it would be good to have a more random fun league this time – so I like the idea of the specialists, as well as the animosity rule that Pete is working on and the sponsors. I say if games are going to be decided by horrible luck anyway, lets make them more random and fun so we care less about the result and more about seeing some far out stuff going on.

3. Animosity rule, as stated above, I like. I would limit it to Orcs rather than the gobbos and trolls, or maybe even that we roll a D8 and only have to submit one of the orc positionals. But either way I think it would be cool to represent orcs getting fed up or whatever and just wanting to change teams for the hell of it. We could even do it after each game (if it was just one player each time).


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:35 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Also having the specialists might create more differences in rosters, rather than everyone having the same?

I also wondered whether more random ruling might be good? How about different referees?


Author: snailracer [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Good to see my post got things moving…

1. My intention was that the first mid-season would be just an opportunity to replace players with rookies but the subsequent windows would have the left over players from the draft, as I’m pretty sure not every player will be bought (especially as the league progresses and the draft players are relatively poor compared to the teams players).
For me the whole point of the draft system is being able to trade your picks; One great player probably wont fix the worst team but two decent guys would be a boost. On that note I would propose upping the number of players in the draft so we have 3 (12 players) or even 4 (16 players) rounds. This would also leave a lot of leftover players for the mid season windows.

2. As Rich has said, the game is already random so whats a bit more added in? In terms of models I’m sure we can all scrape together enough gobbos, or even all pitch in for a gobbo box set or bits from petes favourite website.
We may need to up the number of bribes to keep some of theses guys on the field!

3. Animosity. Not sure about that. A run of bad luck could see a team without throwers or a serious lack of blockers etc (i.e. two weeks running a thrower is randomly chosen from one team but all the other teams only put in linemen, or players cant be taken because it would take a team over the allowed number of positionals). I know we want to make it a bit more random but its still a league and we all want to win (in a friendly way!). We’ve seen from the human league that a loss of a few players can lead to a loss of form and enjoyment. Maybe limit it to linemen? Keeps the random but doesn’t affect the team too badly.

4. Sponsors. Interesting to see what you come up with. I think it would be difficult to balance money sponsorship but the idea of the sponsor being like an inducement would work quite well; orcidas boots give one player +1MA sprint and sure feet for a half per game etc. I think tying them into the inducements would balance them out quite well as we already have the values to give a ready reckoner


Author: The Power Spence [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:13 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Matt, you seem to have misinterpreted the animosity thing,

Everyone would put 1 of a certain type or all types into pots, so you wouldn’t be trading throwers for linemen, you’d be trading linemen for linemen, blitzers for blitzers, etc

This in theory could help balance teams out as, more than likely everyone would put their “worst” player in, but the best teams worst blitzer could be as good as the worst teams best blitzer therefor upping their skill level. Having said that it is random and who knows.

On a side note, been speaking to Ju, we talked about maybe having a negative mark for losing and drawing, which would be picked at random like an mvp, when a player hits 3 marks he leaves in the next window. Or something along those lines.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:44 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Had some more discussions with Pete yesterday at lunch.

1. With the specialists, we both thought that it would be good to have the Chainsaw, Bomber and Pogoer, but perhaps to leave out the Fanatic?

2. We discussed having the draft free. Because it might be of little use having the first draft pick if it is a player you can’t afford. Players would be free but then go on the roster at full cost for the purposes of wages and TV. To offset this, we thought eliminating the winnings roll would be a good move.

So players coming in to the game could be:
Rookie linemen and gobbos bought as normal at any time.
Free players randomly generated by the draft, which happens every 6 games.
And every 3 games (mid-season) the opportunity to buy specialists as normal.
As well as:
The opportunity to buy any draft players that weren’t wanted, every three games.
The ability to bid on players who are leaving another team, every three games.

Money coming in would be:
Gate receipts
Sponsors

Expenditure would be:
Wages
Team extras
Additional Inducements
New players

If gate receipts mostly cover expenditure then the sponsor money could be used for team extras (Apoth, Re-roll) and sometimes replacing a dead specialist, but if we kept the draft free then we might see a lot more treasury money being spent on inducements, like bribes, or magic items, which will again make the games more fun.

3. As Pete clarified the idea behind the ‘Animosity pool’ is not to leave someone without a specialist as that would be way harsh. After further discussion we thought that every three games, you could roll a D6, with a 1-2 being a thrower, 3-4 being a Black orc and 5-6 being a blitzer. Everyone selects one of their players of that type and then they are randomised and distributed evenly. So every three games there is a slight redistrubution of talent. If for some reason a team doesn’t have a specialist of the type rolled, they would sit out the draft.

4. Sponsors we came up with are below.

Orcidas:
15k per game + additional 30k win bonus (per win) AND 1 player can have Sprint or Sure Feet (choose when sponsor is picked)

Iron Brute:
Additional D6 fans (home and away) for sponsored team (keeping all additional money) AND 1 player can have +1AV (choose when sponsor is picked)

Bloodweiser:
30k per game flat rate AND 1 Free Bloodweiser Babe every game.

Le Gob Sportif:
15k per goblin on roster per game AND 1 goblin on your team gains Dirty Player and Sneaky Git
Pete thinks this should only be 10K

Gore-Tex:
10k per game + additional 5k completion bonus (per pass) AND 1 player can have Catch (choose when sponsor is picked)

Knee Kappa:
10k per game + additional 5k casualty bonus (per casualty) AND 1 player can have Mighty Blow (choose when sponsor is picked)
Maybe Stab instead of Mighty Blow, to make it more unique?

Reeborc:
Additional income per game of 1k x No. of SPPs earned AND 1 player can have Leader (choose when sponsor is picked)
Or an additional 10K per game as well. Or possibly Pro instead of Leader.

I think the original idea was to do sponsors in a reverse draft way, so the league leader gets first pick, but that wouldn’t work if we were handing them out at the start, which I think would be better. pete also suggested that we just choose 4 from the ones we suggest, but I think it better to use more than 4 so that even the last picker gets a choice.
Any suggestions on how we might allocate these will be welcome!

5. First instinct on the negative mark thing Pete is that it’s not a goer, but obviously open to other’s thoughts on it.

6. We also briefly discussed having 3 types of Ref, randomly select one each game; an Orc one how is normal, a goblin one who maybe won’t send goblins off and a Black orc one who can’t be subject to Get the Ref. But that is a pipe idea t the moment that needs a lot more thought.

All of this stuff is subject to discussion obviously. My thinking behind this is to make a radically different experience from the Human League, rather than just do something very similar with a different race. I think Orcs would be a lot more haphazard in their leagues…


Author: DOOM [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:58 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

I love all the ideas flying around! Looks like the orc league is going to be very interesting :)

In regards to the “negative MVP” idea, our thought was that it would add that random element of players wanting to move around without having a completely random hat draw every now and then. It’s a bit more organic and is something coaches will have to keep on top of game to game.

How it would work was that if you lose a game two randomly chosen players on your team would have a mark put against then; if you win or draw only 1 player has a mark (I thought winning should take a mark too otherwise you could get into a situation where losing teams lose more because they’re losing their best players). Once a player has 3 marks against his name he instantly leaves and goes onto the transfer list, the team he leaves gets the base cost of the type of player he was.

A coach can pay to have marks taken off their players, but it costs 10k per level of the player, so only 10k for rookies, 20k for players with 1 skill etc. We had another idea that you pay 1,000 per SPP on the player, but maybe this is too fiddly…? A coach can pay off more than one point at a time if he can afford it. Also, if a player does leave a team the coach can then buy him back in the next transfer window; but will almost certainly end up paying more out than he would have wanted!

I like this idea as I think it represents orc animosty and natural aggression towards losing and each other in general. It will also help to stop teams with highly skilled players from stashing money as they’ll have to pay a lot to remove marks against their players.

Once the league progresses into a second season there will probably be quite a lot of players with 1 or 2 marks on many of the rosters and that is when I think this will really kick in. You’ll have to see how the league economy works though as it could become unaffordable or just an insignificant annoyance.

You could always change it to only 2 marks and then they leave if you really want player movement…


Author: DOOM [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:03 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Sponsors look great and are definitely something you should put in all your leagues! I think there should only be as many sponsors as there are teams though to stop teams from being able to pick and choose. The team who wins the league should get first choice and then 2nd place etc. This should be one of the main aspects of the league and be the reason you want to win the league! If you finish at the bottom of the table you should be lumped with the worst sponsor and have to live with it. Although none of the sponsors should be much better than any of the others, they’ll just require you to do things you didn’t necessarily want to have to, like hiring more Goblins or having to make more completions…


Author: Luke [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:14 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

If it’s o.k, i’d like to place my vote for not having the “negative mark” system. Since Rich has voiced the same, would Pete or Matt like to cast a decisive 3rd?
Not that i think it’s a terrible idea – i just think the mid season purchase at rookie level and end of season draft will balance a bit better.
My fear with the negative mark is that with only a couple of weeks to go and with a shot at the title your 2 best players sod off. Also, it’s another thing to have to keep track of. I think we’re in danger of over-thinking this all a bit. Whilst quirky little extras that deviate from the standard structure give the league a bit of spice, having too much to keep track of gets a bit annoying.
I agree with Doom that there should be 4 sponsors (just 1 per team) and they should all be much of a muchness.
I think it would be good to take the existing ones as a basis and all discuss face-to-face to hammer out the final ones we want.

DEFFO down for free draft players – great idea, solves problems and is a nice little boost.

Different Ref’s – again i think this would be fun. How about making more violent kick off results?

Peace out,


Author: snailracer [ Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:46 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

I actually really like the negative mark idea (sorry Luke). I too think it is far more organic and would represent nicely the discontent at losing. The only issue would be balancing it so that losing teams dont then lose all of their players and become even worse. Although if we go with free draft etc as outlined by Rich above than the lowest TV team would be picking up lots of inducement money to pay off the marks.

Essentially i think we’re getting somewhere. I think the only sticking points really are Animosity (in whatever form), Sponsors (limit to four or not), Specialists (why no fanatic?)

Otherwise I’d pretty much go with Rich’s post


Author: The Power Spence [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:45 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

My Votes/Opinions –

Negative Mark scheme – Yes (but would replace the random draw thing)

Free Draft – Yes

Goblin Specialists – Yes (but no fanatic as it’s just another strength player), I also think that the Goblin Specialists should come from the 0-4 Goblin choice.

Sponsors – Yes – 1 per team to choose from in a reverse draft so the top team picks first. (We could do a roll off for the first season I guess?). However Rich and I discussed maybe making about 10 sponsors or something and at the beginning of each season draw 4 out of the hat to choose from (1 each).


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:48 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

The negative mark thing V the random animosity thing
Negamarks do seem more organic and ‘relistic’ but I worry in purely gaming terms that the losing teams will end up losing players, while the winning teams remain unaffected.
Or, if the losing teams are generating extra cash to pay off the marks, they’re not actually gaining anything from the extra cash, so it’s not offsetting the fact they’re losing.
Plus if this happens, it means no players leave at all and I thought the idea of this was to get the movement of players between teams flowing?

Sponsors, I would have 5 options per season, so at least the last pick isn’t completely screwed. But if we can generate 10 and pick a random 5 per season, that will keep it interesting, so sponsors only last the length of one season.
For the beginning, it will just have to be a random choice on a dice roll or something for first pick, but then it can be the league winner who picks first in subsequent seasons as an incentive for winning the league.

I think on the whole it would be better without the fanatic, although if Luke and Matt were both very keen I’d be ok with it. I disagree with Pete about the specialists being part of the 0-4 choice though, I don’t really see what it achieves by limiting people in that way. If people want that many Gobbos on a team, let them!


Author: snailracer [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

how about a change to the negative mark idea? Every loss or draw generates one nega mark randomly allocated to orc players. Any player with a nega mark may leave at the end of the season. Marks cannot be removed. With three games per half season we should end up with 3 players each wanting to leave. The lowest placed team decides/randomises which of their three players wants to leave. Any player with two or more marks is automatically the player leaving. Once decided the other teams must put up one player for transfer of the same type. This can be anyone not necessarily a nega mark player. Lowest placed team gets first pick of the players. Teams get base value for the players but must pay full value. You can buy your own player back if you want/can afford/he’s still available.

I agree with Having ten sponsors and picking 5 to choose from. I’m sure they’ll be tweaked as we go along if we find one is particularly good/bad.

Agree with fanatic thing now. I dont see why they should come from the 0-4 limit. If someone wants seven goblins in an orc team then go for it….


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http://wargamers.freeforums.org/the-orc-league-t439-15.html
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Author: The Power Spence [ Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

With regards to the goblin limits, I just feel that without the limitations that nobody will ever take a lineman. That would be a shame as linemen are meant to make up most of the numbers in a team and Orcs already have loads of specialist positions.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:16 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

I do see you point Pete, but it’s unlikely.
I think everybody will want 4 Blitzers, 4 BOs and a thrower. So that leaves 7 roster spots up for grabs.
So yes in theory a coach could fill those 7 spots with Gobbos… but y’know if they did all credit to them, I admire their courage!
More likely, is that coaches will want a regular Gobbo (for TTM), a Troll and another thrower.
That leaves 4 spots.
Even if they went with all three specialist Gobbos, it leaves one spot free for a Lineman, because there are no other specialists available and why would anyone take a 5th Goblin?

It does seem like we’re almost there, and we can discuss some of the finer details on Thursday.


Author: DOOM [ Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:13 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Orc teams are a bit daft really, because their black orcs ARE their linemen… It’s kind of ashame they have 2 different types.

The only use I can see for anyone taking an orc lineman when they have access to more gobbos is to have a dedicated kicker.

Whatever happens I look forward to seeing what you decide and then seeing the league kick off! But then, if I’m honest, I then hope to see you take all the best bits from these past 2 seasons you’ve just done and anything you learn from the orc league and then make the ultimate Human league again!

Another suggestion I have to ask is that you give your leagues proper names! How about the “All Orc Orcidas Supa Leeg”?


Author: Luke [ Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

In terms of composition – you have to admit it’s unlikely many “linos” will get fielded. I do think this would be a shame. When you talk about slots in a FULL roster, yes, there’s one left for a lino. But how many of us keep squads that large? and how often would you actually field them? They’d just sit rotting in your subs bin.
Me and Pete were bounding some ideas about and thought perhaps:

a) we could limit Black Orcs and Blitzers to 3 in your starting team. We feel this would have multiple benefits including:
1) keeping a long term development to the teams so you haven’t got all your specialists from the off.
2) it would make any blitzers / black orcs that came up in the transfer window much more attractive and stimulate bidding wars.
3) may encourage internal transfer, eg; so one team ends up with 4 Blitzers if they want to be more “running game” or 4 Black Orcs if they want to be more “Hitty”
4) will encourage more lino’s in the starting teams.
It seems silly to be able to afford absolutely everything you’d want from the off IMO.

b) We could say you’re only allowed 1 or 2 (could talk about it) of the Gobbo specialists – NOT all of them.

c) We think in this league you SHOULD get SPP for successfull fouls. After all – an Orc crowd loves dirty play!

d) Every team (regardless of home or away) has 1 bribe every game. The politics behind an Orc league are incredibly corrupt! (Orcish names for Sepp Blatter welcome).

Lastly, on the referee / kick off table – i would like to have a pop at coming up with some stuff if that’s o.k. I’ll try and do it by Thurs to share with you guys and see what you think.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:42 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Luke – love to see what you ocme up with for Refs.

I’ve edited the main post to take into account the stuff we discussed and decided on Thursday. I’ve not highligted any red bits because there were actually a massive amount of minor changes, so please have a good read and see what you think.


Author: snailracer [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

All looks good. Only thing I can see is i thought the 0-6, Black orc (max 4)/Blitzer (max 4) was going to stand throughout the entire league and not just for initial team selection?


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:15 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Oh I see… did I get the wrong end of the stick? If that’s what was agreed, happy to see that edited.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:01 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Finalised updated rules now up.

The only one that you guys need to check is Rule 15, which we forgot to clarify last night.

In the Human league we had the rule that you could get base cost for unwanted players. This isn’t gonna work in the orc league because draft players are free, so a coach could make a horrible profit by selling off their uneeded draft players.
So I think the rule I’ve written is ok, but if you’ve got any other suggestion then feel free to question.


Author: snailracer [ Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:18 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

All makes sense. If we say you cant sell draft players until the next transfer window (ie until they’ve played three games) then we stop that anyway.


Author: snailracer [ Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

I just want to check my sponsorship deal. You’ve written:

Le Gob Sportif:
10k per goblin on roster per game AND every goblin on your team gets Dirty Player and Sneaky Git

I think this may be excessive. I thought it was every non-specialist goblin not every goblin, although I’m very happy for the chainsaw to start with Dirty Player and Sneaky git!


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:42 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Ah no that’s an error. It should be just one goblin on the team…


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:58 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Possible rule considerations for next season:

1. Every coach gets 50K per game to be spent on inducement cards (Dirty Tricks, Magic Items etc). Additional money can be added from the coach’s treasury to afford more expensive cards, but the 50k cannot be spent on anything else. If not spent, it is wasted; It cannot be stockpiled or banked in any way.

2. Ref rules, as discussed prior to the start fo the league – these would need a lot more refining.

3. Orc Shamans. We discussed this last night in the car and came to some conclusions, obviously subject to Matt’s input. What is proposed is this;
The Shaman can be bought at the cost of 150K to occupy 17th spot on the roster. His profile is 5 3 3 8 (same as an orc thrower). He can gain SPPs in the normal way and is paid wages in the same way (10% of his value). He is treated in the same way as a normal player, except he has an extra action he can take, which is casting a spell. He can take this action from on the pitch or from the reserves box, but not from the KO’d or Casualty box and not if he is prone. He cannot move in the same turn in which he takes a spell casting action. A spell casting action allows the shaman to cast one of the spells available to him. Each spell can only be cast once per game.
To start, all Shamans have a single spell. When Shamans get enough SPPs for an upgrade, instead of rolling in the normal manner, they gain the next spell available to them. Shamans cannot be given the selected MVP.
Spells are as follows;
0-5 SPPs (starting spell): Lightning Bolt. Shaman picks any player. On a 2+, that player is placed prone and a armour roll is made with Might Blow. On a 1, the player is just placed prone.
6 – 15 SPPs: Fireball. Shaman picks a square and the scatter template is placed on the square. Roll a 3+ for each player under the template to knock them down and make an armour roll.
16 – 30 SPPs: ???
31 – 50 SPPs: ???
51 – 74 SPPs: ???

(as a note: the wizard was thought to be a good ‘anti-chainsaw’ type player, to nullify how powerful the chainsaws are in the game, which is one of the issues we’ve had with this past season)
Views and suggestions please on these ideas, and any other things that we could bring to the league next season…


Author: The Power Spence [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:19 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

The only thing I would change is that you just get given a 50k card, no adding money to make it better, just straight up.

Not sure on whether you pick the catergory of the 50k card, (eg Dirty/Magic etc) then randomly select, or just totally random.

Discuss


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Did I get the Shaman rules right, as we discussed them?


Author: snailracer [ Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

1. Agree with pete on this. I think you should just get dealt a random 50k card and that is it. I would be tempted to say just dirty tricks tho.

2. Really cant work out how the ref would work. Need to have a good think about it.

3. I think you pretty much got the shaman as discussed. I think he should be ST2 and AV7 tho as otherwise he’s a very good sub as well.

I’d also say that the spells should be more effective from on the pitch (so worse off the pitch). Maybe 3+ lightning and 4+ fireball from off pitch. That way third upgrade could be +1 to casting if ag roll is passed(or similar).

Also forces you to get him on the pitch to earn upgrades (if we say he gets 1 spp per casualty caused but only when he’s on the pitch)

Upgrades could include: using lightning in blocking (uses chainsaw stats), teleport out of trouble (basically leap), Wow you’re titchy (turn opponent into snotling), flick through the magic deck and pick one!

The only worry is that every game the wizard will use lightning first turn to remove the chainsaw!

Maybe he should start with fireball, and then get lightning later?

Wargamers
http://wargamers.freeforums.org/
The Orc League
http://wargamers.freeforums.org/the-orc-league-t439-30.html
Page 3 of 3

Author: DOOM [ Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:28 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Maybe, to make fireball less amazing, you should make it like a pass. So potentially the fireball will scatter inaccurately or he might fumble and fling the raging ball of fire at his feet!


Author: Tubes [ Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:58 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

I think the pass idea sounds good! I love the idea of some weird Orc shamens.


Author: snailracer [ Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:37 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

It would basically become a bomb then. Maybe its accurate on a 2+ and on a 1 it scatters three times. I think 150k would be a lot to spend on something you can essentially get for 40k (goblin bombadier)

I think a shaman should be suitably skilled to not blow himself up; how do you fumble a spell?


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:01 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Yeah putting it in context – the fireball is a spell you’d earn by getting 6 SPPs. This for a player who is only basic statline, cannot be given the selected MVP, and is going to be targetted by the opposition when he is on the pitch.
It’ll be a miracle to get him SPPs so I want the fireball to be good! Likewise with any further spells; we need to remember we’re not trying to make them all even and fair, they should be progressively more excellent because the Shamen can’t get anything to make him better (like block for instance) so is always going to be a rookie player and getting him SPPs is going to be very tough. Plus he costs 150K to get on your roster and 15K in wages every game.
I would prefer to keep him 5 3 3 8, otherwise he’ll be too weak and after all he is an orc, so shouldn’t be ST2.
But I like the idea of the spells being slightly worse from the reserves box, to encourage coaches to get him on the field :-)


Author: Tubes [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Well put Ronin. I’ll admit that I didn’t really read the previous posts (as it doesn’t really effect me) with the detail and only commented on Doom’s post…

For that expenditure you would want someone with huge potential. However as with almost all games (I think) there should be an element of luck (chance to fail/not guaranteed), so maybe on a 2D6 a double 1 &/or 6 means it fails? Just putting it out there… They are Orc shamans, who are notoriously weird, wacky and unpredictable.


Author: snailracer [ Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Thing is the whole thing started because none of us like the fact that the wizard inducement is 150k and sometimes doesnt work….not really much of a leveller when that happens.

I can see that keeping orc statlines is better as he will get targeted. I still think He should come with fireball and get lightning as the upgrade. Lightning versus goblin is far too good; 2+ to get an armour roll with +1. If your opponent has a chainsaw its the first thing you hit.

Also dont see why you couldnt opt for a standard skill instead of a spell upgrade. Shaman with block and his first spell running around casting it easier than off the pitch and he’s as survivable as your thrower. It would give players different options.

Maybe we need to decide if we want an out and out lethal spell caster with little to no pitch ability, an on pitch semi-able player who can do magic, or somewhere in between?


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:11 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Matt, that’s a good point, we perhaps need to decide what we want from this idea first. I think being able to give him skills would be quite cool. Certainly lends more potential/unpredictability to him as a player.
With the bolt being the first spell, part of the idea was that it would be a chainsaw leveller. Although I would like to stress that it wasn’t me that came up with that, despite being the only one without a chainsaw!
But we did all say that we thought Chainsaws were too powerful.
Looking at the relative costs, chainsaws only being 40K, if you were to use a 150K player to take him out, would that be seen as a good use of the spell? bearing in mind he can only cast once and given it could effetively stop a TD later in the game?
(maybe we could change the MB ability of the spell to Claws? Doesn’t effect Gobbos then, but would act the same as the MB on an orc…)


Author: The Power Spence [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:29 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Maybe we could use the idea I suggested in the car and have a extra skills column for the Shaman. Eg Wizard skills.

The Shaman could then have:

M5 S3 A3 Av8 – Whatever spell we decide – (Single) GW – (Double) – ASP

We could make all the spells “balanced” so people could tailor their Shaman to do what they would like.

I think some sort of basic fireball spell would be fairly Orcy.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet, he doesn’t have to cost 150k. We have already made enough changes to edit the price (up or down) if needs be.


Author: The Power Spence [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:58 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Just knocked up a few quick ideas for spells:

Fireball: – as per the rule book, use the scatter template to cover an area, everyone in the area is knocked down of a 4+ (3+ if he is on the pitch) and is hit with the old mighty blow.

Lightning: – on a 2+ the player is knocked down and placed prone, on a 3+ roll armour and inj using the mighty blow rules (this is changed to a 1+ and 2+ if he’s on the field).

Teleport: – The wizard can teleport himself to any square within range ruler range, on a 2+ (use the standard range ruler mods for different ranges), a failed dice roll sees the wizard placed prone (or stunned?).

eg:
quick pass – automatic (+1)
short pass – 2+
long pass – 3+
long bomb – 4+

The skill can also be used to transport another player instead, but with a -2 modifier.

eg:
quick pass – 3+
short pass – 4+
long pass – 5+
long bomb – 6+

If the wizard or teleport(ee) lands on an occupied square (can be done on purpose) then the player in the occupied square takes an armour roll (with mighty blow). If the armour is broken then they are knocked over. The wizard/teleport(ee) then scatters (as if he was fumbled), repeat this process until he lands in an empty square (or off the pitch). He is then placed prone and must take an armour roll (with mighty blow).

Weather: – The wizard can opt to change the weather on the pitch. If the weather is currently anything other than normal then he can change it to normal on a 2+

If he wants to “spice things up a bit” then pick the end of the spectrum he wants and roll a d6, on a 1-3 its the lower on a 4-6 it’s the higher:

eg he wants a bit of rain: on a 1-3 it’s “pouring rain” on a 4-6 it’s “blizzard”.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:02 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Good call – that does allow the player to be developed as per the coach, so they could end up all different with different spells and stuff.
If all the spells are equal, the coach could even pick the starting spell.
I also like Matt’s ideas of shocking hands – like a chainsaw, but with no chance of backfiring, and the ability to turn a player into a snotling for a turn.


Author: snailracer [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:37 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Seeing as the wizard can cost what we like how about; this season the league has been approached by the head of the Badlands Shamans, Ebenezer Gud, to work out a sponsorship deal. The BS will provide each team with a rookie shaman….

I like all of the above spells, and I like the statline etc that pete has suggested. I’m starting to think the shaman should be able to use his major spell only once but have a minor spell(s) that can be used every turn on the pitch; shocking hands, mini teleport (leap), snot face (snotling for a turn), hypnotic gaze, Ur wel fik (make someone really stupid). All require an agility roll to work and can be used after a move action but no other action can then be taken. This means we could add skills that work in the same way as Pass and accurate for wizard spells.
Maybe if you have Lightning bolt you get shocking hands, Teleport – mini teleport, Fireball – snot face, etc

I would then say that if we’re using skills to boost spells that I would make them all harder to cast by 1 than pete has suggested above (so 3+ instead of 4+ etc)


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:03 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

Actually get them for free? We’d have to establish a wage cost though and a value that would increase as they got upgrades…
I quite like the idea of minor spells, but worry that it will get a bit complex…?


Author: The Power Spence [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

I guess the minor spells would count a some type of action. As the chainsaw works as a Block action etc.


Author: snailracer [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

We get draft players free so it would be similar. Make them 100k for wage purposes and then upgrades cost as usual, and maybe spells cost 40k?

I was thinking the minor spells work exactly as pete suggests; minor spell use counts as an action and can be used as part of a blitz to allow the player to move and use. So lighning hands is exactly like a chainsaw except it requires a AG roll not a 2+. I would also say they can backfire if you roll a 1 (unlike the major spell) so you can turn yourself into a snotling :)

I think with the minor spells to keep it simple you can only have one and it is determined by your first major spell.


Author: The Power Spence [ Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:12 am ]
Post subject: Re: The Orc League

We could always have two sets of spell skills,

Minor on a Single
Major on a Double


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