Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)
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Author: Tubes [ 22 Apr 2012 03:35 pm ]
Post subject: Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)

Hi guys,

I thought I would knock up this topic as a post to discuss the Necromunda campaign i.e. rules, ideas, issues etc

I’ve spent a couple of hours downloading the whole necromunda archive of rules, gangs, additional rules, alternative gangs, scenarios etc from Yakromunda. As we could be starting in a month or so I wanted to clarify some starting issues:

1. Rules Set – LRB or Community Edition (CE). I haven’t read the CE though…
2. Skills Tables – there is a official skills table revision and apparently some CE revision to help tweak Goliath’s apparent weakness + an unofficial new ‘Trading skill’ table
3. Gang Tweaks – My only example of this is Redemption rules. After I read them I thought there were very much onto a winning as they did not suffer from starvation and income issues as they never had to pay for food/supplies (as their supporters would provide that for them). This would mean a guaranteed income, which would not reduce, after every engagement.
4. Alternative Gangs – I have found several unofficial gangs in the library. I have also researched a bit about Genestealer Cultists and there is an old Journal article covering them. However there are opinions online that purtrain genestealers are too good for their cost (understandable as they can make mincemeat of terminators, let alone unarmoured gangers)

Essentially I am tempted to play it fairly conservatively to start with i.e. only official rules/updates until someone as read up the alternatives.

Firstly I propose to use to non-official Redemption rules from Antony Case’s Necromunda website (it came highly recommended, though I have only looked at the Redemption rules on the site).

Matt ref your desire to use the Grymn for Van Saar. Like the Ju & Rob I am a bit concerned about the modifiers to hit for near half-sized models (the partially behind -1, 50+% behind cover -2). Being such small models they are considerably more likely to get -2s to hit. However I appreciate there are models crouching, squats, ratling snipers etc out and about. But the couching models are fairly rare and the stumpy models/races/characters would have had their rules play tested. My opinion is to try to keep human houses to around 28mm scale for simplicity. Sorry.

I appreciate you want to get some models which really inspire you and not waste your money and time. How about using your Genestealer Cult/Delaque gangers to create an Ash Wastes Nomads gang? Or just go for a Delaque gang regardless that Ju is wanting to do so too?

Author: snailracer [ 23 Apr 2012 08:38 am ]
Post subject: Re: Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)

As I said in the GC post I think we should start with the official rules and play the game for a bit before we start tweaking and adding bits. I have no desire to use anything other than a standard gang to keep it simple for myself. I would like to use miniatures that I like but if its going to cause problems then I will just use what I have.

There are rules for squat gangs out there:
There is no mention in these rules of any changes to the to hit rule. GW squat minis are roughly the same size as grymn so it may not be as much as a problem as it at first appears.

We always have the option of tweaking the to hit rules but I think we’d need to play for a while before house ruling anything.

Author: DOOM [ 23 Apr 2012 08:28 pm ]
Post subject: Re: Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)

Those rules look really cool! Haven’t looked in depth but I think you can get the jist of it pretty easily. And I think those Grymm models would be perfect for them. Go for it!

I really need to start thinking about actually putting my gang together. I doubt I’ll be changing my gang ever, but I can imagine others might/will.

Whatever happens I’m just looking forward to some chaotic multiway battles, which I think we should play as often as possible as I can see that taking away from any competitiveness and make engagements more interesting! Which gangs will gang together on which etc… :)

Author: Tubes [ 25 Apr 2012 06:34 pm ]
Post subject: Re: Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)

The Squat rules look interesting. I’d like some variety in the campaign though I’m dubious about some of the rules/scenarios, published in the CJ, by 14 years old kids. I’d like to think there were vetted/peer review prior to publishing…

I wouldn’t expect any ‘to hit’ modifier/rules for squats as they would have been play tested (I assume) with models of a similar size as the Grymn. My issue with using them as Van Saar (or any human gang) would be as an opponent you’d would be saying to yourself “if only that was a model nearer the ‘normal’ scale”. I don’t want to drag this on any longer… I hope you understand my point of view.

Author: snailracer [ 25 Apr 2012 08:23 pm ]
Post subject: Re: Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)

The CJ rules for GC were re-published in Gang war by GW so must have withstood a few years of playtesting (unless GW were just being very lazy, which is entirely possible).

From memory I don’t recall my cult gang (which used the CJ rules) being uber powerful but then I’m not sure I ever got it to a high level. The rules do include troops or Inquisitors being called in to help against uncovered gangs. I tend to agree with a lot of the online discussion that purestrains are far too good for use in a gang, and anyway in pure fluff terms a cult would only use purestrains in a full planetary uprising not a skirmish for power in the underhive. As it stands the only changes i would make would be to remove purestrains from the list altogether and limit the Magus to 1 major and 1 minor wyrd power.

I think the different sized minis thing is an interesting issue and one that I’d like to discuss and think about (and maybe playtest) and not just say we dont like it move on; there were rules for the human league that we came up with that after two seasons we have tweaked or scrapped when we’ve moved on to the orc league.

Obviously cover has a major effect in necromunda but it seems to me that the main issue would be with a model covered horizontally (i.e. legs behind cover body above) and not vertically (i.e. left side behind cover) as vertically is the same whatever your height. Generally minis covered horizontally are using the cover as a firing position and due to the shorter stature of the grymn minis they may not be able to fire from this type of cover effectively, thus balancing out the height issue (especially as the official card necromunda terrain is cut in steps to accomodate a 28mm mini).

I seem to remember the in cover/not in cover part of the game being the most contentious part and is probably part of the reason 40k moved away from that method of resolving shooting.

I don’t want to use an outlander gang and would much prefer to stick with the standard gang rules (although the unknown gang rules for creating your own house on yakromunda are interesting) so I wont be using a squat gang anyway.

Doom – I totally agree about having multi player games. The reason I enjoy (i think thats the right word) our thursday Blood Bowl so much is that its a social experience; four of us can sit around together and play at the same time. I like the idea of two separate skirmishes happening in the same are of underhive; so two standard games side by side that can cross over if players decide to/minis get line of sight to each other etc

Author: DOOM [ 27 Apr 2012 10:54 am ]
Post subject: Re: Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)

I was thinking more along the lines of 3 or more gangs all scrapping over the same area, for the same objective, but your idea is a good one to and one that I know I/we’ve thought about for 40k.

My problem in the minis is that they’re a different scale. As the game mechanics and terrain are designed for 28mm scale, if you have a basic human it is assumed he is roughly of that size. All other races, vehicles and things are sized in relation to this. So the grymm models look like they’d be fine for Squats because they are smaller and the stats reflect this in making them slower moving and having less initiative, but they are harder to spot behind cover due to their small stature.

A solution might be to put them on heavily built up bases, so that they stand roughly the same height as a 28mm human…?

Author: snailracer [ 27 Apr 2012 03:39 pm ]
Post subject: Re: Salvation, Surviver or Scum (Campaign)

I can see why there is an apparent problem with using Grymn as humans, because they are indeed smaller, but Grymn are actually true 28mm scale dwarfs. They are 22mm to the eyes because they are dwarfs not because they are smaller scale. GW produce 28mm minis that range wildly in size around the 28mm to the eyes mark, you only have to look at goliath vs escher, or some of the crouching ratskin minis to see this.

This is all probably pointless anyway as in reality I’m never going to buy them just to playtest them and find out it is an unfair advantage being a midget, and then never use the expensive minis again! This is the kind of situation that could be resolved if we played regularly enough (like the BB leagues) but as we won’t be able to it will be best to stick with everything as standard as possible so we can all just pick up the rules and play.

Right I’m off to scour the internet for examples of grymn used as humans in necromunda….. :)

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