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5th Edition Incoming!
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Author: BrizzleRob [ 04 May 2008 12:54 pm ]
Post subject: 5th Edition Incoming!

Some of you would have already heard but GW is set to release the 5th edition of the Warhammer 40,000 rules this July. Curious I’ve decided to have a look around to discover what may change. Below is a round-up of what I found from the following sources:

Bells of Lost Souls Blog

Warseer.com
1. the addition of a ‘run’ option (similar to fleet but with a trade off to keep fleet special).
2. Improvements to the cover save rules.
3. Rending toned down (rending i.e. auto wound/no armour save on a 6 to wound & reduction in effectiveness against vehicles).
4. Template(Blast) weapons rules streamlined.
5. Sniper weapons rules amended (rending probable)
6. Close combat rules amended with a combat resolution phase similar to fantasy
7. Single vehicle damage table.
8. Vehicles without a WS in CC always get hit in the rear armour.
9. Vehicles able to ram
10. Other vehicle amendments
11. Mission rules changed in a similar manner to Apocalypse (no more Alpha, Gamma or Omega).
12. Only non vehicle non swarm troop choices are scoring units (Note I did not say infantry)
13. Vehicles types are adjusted (the rumoured skimmer nerf)

Shooting
-There’s now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).
-All models friend or foe now block line of sight. Vehicles and Monstrous Creature can be targeted over intervening infantry.
-Area terrain does not block line of sight.
-All blast weapons now scatter. BS is still an important function of how far though.

Vehicles
-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.
–Skimmers Moving Fast is now a 5+ cover save. All Obscured Targets receive a cover save. No more “Hull Down.”
-Dedicated transports can now carry any unit (subject to normal restrictions, i.e., no Terminators) and are no longer the deathtraps they have been (no entangling, just pinning).
-AP 1 weapons add +1 to the vehicle damage chart instead of doing as they do now.
-Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and pick the highest on the vehicle damage table.

Miscellaneous
-Independent Character targeting restrictions have been eased.
-There is no IC protection any longer unless he is joined to a unit
-ICs within 2″ of a unit automatically join it.
-Dark Eldar are not gone, as they’re mentioned in the rules (their jetbikes DO get the 6″ assault).
-Frag grenades operate as plasma grenades now.
-Monstrous creatures get move through cover, not a reroll.
-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

Missions
-The missions are different enough that Troops only counting as scoring isn’t as big a deal as it would be today.
-Victory points are calculated differently in “cleanse” style missions (points calculated depending on the FOC slot the dead unit took up).
-Scouts and Infiltrators can now try to outflank the enemy and come on as reserves from a different board edge.
-Deepstrike is the same, but if you can’t place all the models, you roll on the “deepstrike mishap” table (50% you’re dead, 50% you place yourself anywhere you like).

Dane of War Blog
Pg 3 – Blast markers now hit if they cover any part of the base. This is a nice boost for Frag Missiles, and Ordnance.

Pg 4 – The term ‘model is much more explicitly defined than before. This is a good sign.

Pg 15 – ‘Running’ works exactly like Fleet of Foot does now.

Pg 16 – They explicitly say you can’t shoot a Space Marine’s back banner. That’s good to have explained since I play with some obtuse players.

“Models are not allowed to fire through the gaps in an intervening unit.”

You can shoot over friends if you’re on a hill. This is done via the Laser Pointer method to see if the hill is high enough to not clip the heads of a friendly unit ahead of you. You can also shoot through your own unit with no problems. The ‘Covering Fire’ rule cuts down on some obvious abuses – but this still looks problematic to me.

Pg 18 – BS6+ works by providing a reroll when a one is rolled. e.g. 2/6 2/5 2/4, etc.

Pg 19 – Majority toughness is still used.

Pg 20 – Allocating wounds is model by model. This means all wounds must be rolled individually – not just special/heavy weapons and sergeants. This is because a failed saving throw of a particular trooper could affect line of sight or range of subsequent firing units or knock the unit out of coherency (EDIT: nope, they allow you to remove another model with an identical stat-line (p 23), things aren’t as bad as they looked from this page alone). This looks like it could seriously slow the game down.

Pg 21 – Cover is better than before. It ranges from 5+ – 3+ and is generally 1 better than similar cover was in 4th.

Pg 22 – If you’re deep in cover in area terrain, your opponent gets a cover save. The way wounds are allocated makes partial cover simple to resolve.

You can elect to be Pinned on your subsequent turn to get a +1 cover save. It’s an interesting option.

Pg 23 – They reversed the fluff rationale for heavy weapons’ saves – either he was the only one trained or the weapon was damaged.

Pg 27 – Rapid Fire remains 12″, not 1/2 range as Tau players want. Blast weapons don’t roll to hit – it scatters a d6. The rules for multiple blasts strike me a tad unruly though.

Pg 28 – Gets Hot! is only on a 1.

Multiple templates are done by counting all the hits first, then allocating wounds, etc.

Pg 29 – All Sniper weapons hit on a 2+, wound on a 4+ and are Pinning and Rending.

Rending – 6 to wound automatically causes an AP2 wound regardless of toughness. Against vehicles you add a d3 on a 6 to pen.

p 31 – You can only assault the unit you shot at.

p 37 – Wounds are allocated like with shooting.

p 38 – The rumours that combat resolution was like in Fantasy don’t match up with this draft – it’s about the same as 4th ed.

p 42 – Friends falling back can trigger a morale check. This is big for Guard and Tau.

p 43 – You can shoot while falling back.

p 44 – You can bonuses to regrouping checks for being inside area terrain or not being able to see the enemy.

p 46 – Characters with retinues cannot leave them.

p 47 – Characters are treated as a separate unit in close combat. (Note that the new wound allocation does lessen the power of hidden ‘Fists, so they’ve moved up in relative terms).

p 48 – Perils of the Warp is an automatic wound with no armour or cover save allowed – per previous rumours.

p 49 – City Ruins are area terrain. Different heights are measured base to base as usual. You use movement to move up and down and any excess beyond what’s needed to move onto a level is wasted and you can’t end up between levels.

p 51 – Blasts are fired at a particular level.

p 53 – Monstrous Creatures get Move Through Cover.

p 61 – Vehicles have the ‘Relentless’ special rule that allows them to fire weapons as if stationary. This clears up the ambiguity about Rapid Fire weapons. (Bikers get this too.)

If you move you can only fire one weapon, except for defensive weapons (S4 or lower). There’s no exception for Tau or pintle-weapons.

Line of sight is measured from the weapon’s barrel.

Other rumours accurate.

p 70 – Dedicated transports can transport other units later. Yay!

p 72 – Ramming rules for vehicles. Should be fun to do Gorkamorka in the middle of a fight when Orks fight Orks.

p 78 – The ‘Eternal Warrior’ special rule means immunity to instant death. Remember that Daemon Herald have this special rule and people wondered what it meant.

‘Fleet’ lets you assault if you run in the movement phase. Great for Gaunts, of mediocre value for Guardians.

p 85 – Missions as just stated. Only non-vehicle Troops count as scoring. This is huge, obviously.

p 87 – Army lists are not secret.

p 89 – There’s a mishap table if you deepstrike within 1″ of an enemy model.

No mention of Escalation.

Saim-Hann Blog
“Rolling out for 5th edition it looks like only the “troops” selection of units are going to count as scoring units”

“More 5th edition rumors regarding skimmers and fast vehicles suggest a toning down of speed from 24” overall to 18” overall.”

It sounds as if it may in general be an improvement.

  • Troop choices decide battles
  • No shooting through, or past, friendly units
  • Improved sniper rules
  • Partial blast coverage is always considered a hit
  • You can only assault the unit you shoot at
  • Friends falling back cause other units to check morale

Author: Tubes [ 05 May 2008 10:12 am ]
Post subject:

Looks interesting, though I haven’t read through all of it. Looks like little tweaks here and there.


Author: DOOM [ 05 May 2008 06:32 pm ]
Post subject:

Looks like the rules are only getting better :)


Author: snailracer [ 05 May 2008 07:39 pm ]
Post subject:

If I had played regurlarly (if at all with 4th edition!) then this would probably mean a lot more.

Looks good from what i remember, might have to try and play a few games when the rules come out


Author: DOOM [ 07 May 2008 07:46 am ]
Post subject:

I love the idea of being able to keep Guard platoons alive and potentially being able to play slower games, with more tactics, as opposed to the carnage fest we see in the current ruleset.

Also I think it will bring more depth to smaller scale battles as you can choose to scurry your men between forests or hunker down in rough terrain to reduce casualties. Just sounds like there is more flexibility with the new rules.

I’m very excited :)


Author: Tubes [ 15 Jun 2008 07:17 pm ]
Post subject:

I get the impression that both Pete & Matt are mustering two hordes, correct?

How many points are you looking at, at the moment?

I look forward to a couple of games every now and then.


Author: snailracer [ 15 Jun 2008 09:59 pm ]
Post subject:

I think I can get up to about 3000 pts using current rules, but that is using quite a few very expensive units and very unbalanced.


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