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Rules are made to be broken…
http://wargamers.freeforums.org/rules-are-made-to-be-broken-t106.html
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Author: RoninOakcleaver [ 16 Apr 2008 12:48 pm ]
Post subject: Rules are made to be broken…

Julian pointed out something after reading my match report on the Greenskins V Saints game. I have since verified it in the rulebook and Pete checked on the official forum.
From the rulebook:

The Kick-Off table is used to recreate these unforeseen but fairly
common events. After both teams have set up, follow this
sequence in the order below:
• Place the ball on the pitch
• Scatter ball to determine where the ball is about to land
• Roll on the Kick-Off table
• Resolve the Kick-Off table result
• Bounce/ catch/or touchback the ball

So the sequence of events is as follows

1. Ball placed and scattered once for the kick to determine where it will land.

2. Kick-off table rolled
Blitz rolled allows a whole turn to ensue, possibly allowing a player to move to the square where the ball will land.

3. Kick completes, by landing in the square – if someone is in the square they get the chance to catch it, if not it bounces.

4. Turn 1 begins.

By now most of you will have realised where this is going – Pete’s TD where he TTM’d the Goblin into my half and ran in to score couldn’t have happened because the ball doesn’t land from the kick until after the blitz is resolved.
From speaking to Giles this rule was also broken, though maybe to not such a drastic effect, in the Corsairs game where on both their blitzs they managed to get into the doughnuts half and pick up the ball – something which is not possible (barring a lucky bounce).

Obviously there is nothing we can do about the games already played but hopefully in the future we can use the rule correctly to avoid giving teams an unfair advantage.


Author: snailracer [ 16 Apr 2008 05:40 pm ]
Post subject:

Well now thats been pointed out i dont think anyone will forget it!

Its not overly clear. I think it should say Ball lands then bounce/catch/touchback the ball.

I know resolve KO result is before bounce etc but its not very clear that the ball is still in flight, especially as you place it on the pitch.

At least we now know, shame we had to find out about it like that


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ 29 Oct 2008 11:18 am ]
Post subject:

Ju has discovered, upon studying the experimental rules changes, that we are playing another current rule slightly wrong.

When a ball is dropped it only scatter/bounces once into an empty square. It does not then bounce a further square as we have been playing. The only way for it to bounce again is if the sqare is occupied and the player fumbles the catch – then it bounces again only one square.

Therefore if someone fumbles the ball it will still always be in their tackle zone, because it only ever bounces one square.


Author: Tubes [ 29 Oct 2008 05:01 pm ]
Post subject:

I’m not quite sure about that:

“If the ball is dropped or not caught, [s]or the ball bounces to a square with a Prone or Stunned player, or a player is pushed to or lands in the ball’s square, or the square where a thrown ball lands is unoccupied (or is occupied by a Prone or Stunned player)[/s] then it will bounce. – Poorly written, rather long and confusing.

This is a technical term for the thing jumping about all over the place while the players stumble about trying to grab it! To find out where the ball bounces to, roll for scatter one more time. – One more time seems to suggest we have already rolled to scatter once before i.e where it is dropped (1st roll) then bounces (2nd roll)

If the ball bounces into an occupied square, then the player in the square must attempt to catch it, as described above. If the player fails to catch the ball, then it will bounce again – However, this does suggest it is only scattered the onceuntil it is either caught or bounces into an empty square or off the pitch”

I am now confused :?


Author: DOOM [ 29 Oct 2008 09:30 pm ]
Post subject:

It’s really confusing!!

However confusing all the text is, it seems to suggest it only bounces once ever. Apart from the bit where it says, “roll for scatter one more time”?!?! If they didn’t put that line in then I think it would be (sort of) clear that it only ever bounces once.

In the blurb for diving catch it says if the diving catcher fails to catch the ball it bounces from his square. That suggests it only bounces once, so will stay within his tackle zone.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ 29 Oct 2008 09:56 pm ]
Post subject:

I think the one more time reference might be linking back to all the incidences in the first paragraph (That Chris as crossed through) that might have used the scatter template previously.


Author: snailracer [ 30 Oct 2008 07:27 am ]
Post subject:

Tubes wrote:
I’m not quite sure about that:

“If the ball is dropped or not caught, [s]or the ball bounces to a square with a Prone or Stunned player, or a player is pushed to or lands in the ball’s square, or the square where a thrown ball lands is unoccupied (or is occupied by a Prone or Stunned player)[/s] then it will bounce. – Poorly written, rather long and confusing.

So if the ball lands in an empty square it bounces.

Tubes wrote:
This is a technical term for the thing jumping about all over the place while the players stumble about trying to grab it! To find out where the ball bounces to, roll for scatter one more time. – One more time seems to suggest we have already rolled to scatter once before i.e where it is dropped (1st roll) then bounces (2nd roll)

So if the ball bounces into any square without being caught in that square it will bounce again.

Tubes wrote:
If the ball bounces into an occupied square, then the player in the square must attempt to catch it, as described above. If the player fails to catch the ball, then it will bounce again – However, this does suggest it is only scattered the onceuntil it is either caught or bounces into an empty square or off the pitch”

If it bounces into a second empty square it stops bouncing

Thats how I read it anyway.


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ 30 Oct 2008 07:42 am ]
Post subject:

“If the ball is dropped or not caught… then it will bounce… To find out where the ball bounces to, roll for scatter one more time.

This is all one action, the ball isn’t bouncing twice.


Author: DOOM [ 30 Oct 2008 07:43 am ]
Post subject:

I disagree, snail.

“If the ball is dropped or not caught, then it will bounce”

This suggests, as confirmed by the diving catch blurb, that it bounces once and from the feet of the player.

I think this is confirmed further by the 3rd paragraph, as it only says it will bounce again if it enters a square with another player, and only if that player fails to catch the ball.

The one that really clinches it for me is in the first paragraph where, amongst all the different options, the only time it says it bounces from an empty square is when the ball is thrown into an empty square; “or the square where a thrown ball lands is unoccupied (or is occupied by a Prone or Stunned player) then it will bounce.” – This strongly suggests it only bounces once, and from the square where it lands.

What the rule book needs is a good diagram example! Or maybe, one of you guys who look at the official forums could put up a query about it?


Author: RoninOakcleaver [ 30 Oct 2008 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:

Ju – are you disagreeing with me?
Because we are saying the same thing…


Author: DOOM [ 30 Oct 2008 02:39 pm ]
Post subject:

No, sorry. I was disagreeing with Snail :)

It’s just damned ambiguous! Can’t believe we’ve never seen this before. Guess we just took it for granted.

Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut…


Author: snailracer [ 30 Oct 2008 05:04 pm ]
Post subject:

Ok now i have the rule book out…

I think we need to take into account ‘catching the ball’ the last line of which reads: ‘If the D6 roll is less than the required total, then the player drops the ball which will bounce (see bouncing balls below).

Now I’ve read that I have changed my mind. I thought not catching it caused it to scatter and THEN it bounced. It seems from the above that the bounce begins at the player who dropped it. As soon as it hits an empty square it will stop bouncing.

And in fact I’ve just looked over the page and the example says ‘he’s dropped it, and the ball bounces away one square’

So from all that I’d say a ball only bounces one square from the square a player is standing in when it is dropped.

It also only bounces one square when it lands in an unoccupied square from a pass.

It will only go more than one square if it is dropped again or the square was occupied with a player who was unable to catch it.

Basically if you drop it it stays in your tackle zone, unless one of the above extra conditions occur.

God damn thats complicated for something so simple. Definitely think the diagram needs updating


Author: snailracer [ 30 Oct 2008 05:35 pm ]
Post subject:

Just found this

http://forum.specialist-games.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16103&SearchTerms=bouncing,ball


Author: Tubes [ 30 Oct 2008 05:40 pm ]
Post subject:

Yup, I agree. Badly worded for something so simple.

After just chatting to Ju we also clarified (between us both) that if you get knocked over or fail to catch the ball the player ‘drops’ at/around their feet where it then bouces to an adjacent square. Makes sense now as I always had it in my head that it was dropped to an adjacent square where which it then bounced.


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